Profile of Bled

The problem with Wehr is that it's viable as 1v1 right now. I think of the two german factions, it's the most solid.

Again, that's a problem. It's not solid because every unit has a purpose and an optimal time to be produced, but because there's a couple very effective units that work, and that's it. That's why none of the issues have been messed with. I'm sure someone must be following the rule of "not broke, don't fix." I don't like that, I'd rather play with variety, but that's just my assumption. However, I also think that's why we are seeing so many more OKW than wehr. It's just really mundane because if you want to play well, you kind of have to do the same thing with little variation.

Gren spam is still more effective than a few grens and support weapons, PGs are still awful and the halftrack hasn't even been considered since teching to tier 3 for flamers, tier 3 is possibly the most well rounded, but the ostwind is still quite niche (not that that's a problem.) And Tier 4 is all but pointless until recently when people realized the werfer was doing well again.

It's very formulaic, tier 3, skip 4, get doctrinal call ins.

More to the point of T4. I think the panther is just too light for what it is. The stock heavy tank of the wehrmacht, but it gets ripped open. Increasing its health would be a good fix I think, and if they really wanted to make the brummbar appealing again, just buff its individual aoe some.

I could be looking through nostalgic goggles here, but I miss playing DoW2 when I had real choice to how I built based on what I was up against, what they were building, if I was playing with someone, and who they were playing as. You often didn't even build the same starting units based solely on the opposing faction. Granted, despite similarities, these aren't the same games and DoW is the more radical of the two, still, I'd like to think it'd be possible to achieve a similar feel.

Mostly what I'd say has been said.

Yeah, I don't think they're over performing by much, but they are. Yes, riflemen are supposed to be good, better than the rest -- they just are by a bit too much.

One thing though. I wouldn't call the Puma an M15 hardcounter, or not really even a counter. I've seen the M15 take down a puma going to hunt it down on a number of times.

I was so excited about encirclement at the prospect of stormtroopers again. What did they say they were at? 530 mp per unit?

you were also talking about the stuka which has nothing to do with the thread im trying to focus it down on what this thread is really about.

Absolutely what this thread needed. Thank you.

The validity of the katyusha's current state should be based on the katyusha alone and its effect on the player and opposition.

despite your nice essay on katyusha vs stuka, which is in my opinion very much 1 sided. i only want to talk about this part especially the ones in bold. elite status, economic strains and veterancy emphasis.

I wish you would have engaged the full post, but at least it's progressive. As far as the one sidedness of my post. Yes, it absolutely is one sided. In this current issue, I don't think the two are comparable. I don't really see how that matters. Just because I think the katyusha is overpowered does not mean I'm obligated to say the stuka is too. I think a number of the posters championing the katyusha mistake that fanboyism. While that may be the case for some, it's a mistake to assume all similar view points are; particularly when they've been so many with actual reasoning.

1stly, the only strains okw has are fuel. they get 100% munitions and manpower rate and as far as i know, the katyusha only counters infantry. it has a pen of only 50 and will not do anything to armour. at best, light vehicles can be damaged by stray rockets and destroyed by precision strikes. with that said, katyusha does barely any fuel damage and thus economic strains should not be used as a point in the argument. all other factions are also hit equally hard by artillery and manpower losses, so whats the point of bringing up, economic strains?

That's not true. Light vehicles are not just damaged, they are outright destroyed by the volley. Furthermore, actual medium armor can be destroyed, and depending on the type, it can be done so with as little as half health. That is direct fuel damage

However, even if it wasn't a threat to armor, it still murders deployed supply trucks. That is 40/80 fuel in itself.

But depleted fuel in the way of lost units is not what we're talking about here. I think you may have misunderstood the point. It is very rare you see an OKW player double up on stukas, much less three or four of them. Depending on the game size, this is not the case with the katyusha. 2-4 is the current norm per player. The reason for this is because economic reality. The fuel is just not a luxury OKW can throw around. And if it could, to do so with the stuka just isn't half as effective as it is with the katyusha.

Also, as far as your point with manpower, yes, everyone loses units, but it does effect OKW to a greater degree than RU and US forces, even more so than ostheer.

2ndly, elite status. there is nothing elite about okw, it is merely a description. they do not pay a premium for their units. infantry still cost as they should and infact are too cheap in some cases. for instance, obers and fallshirms. they cost around 400mp(not sure about falls) and for their cost, they do more dps than guards who when upgraded are 330 + 75*1.66 = 454mp. for comparison, the lmg34 obers have alone does more dps than the entire guards squad. of course, guards can button tanks and does minimal damage to armour but the point stands, where's the premium cost for their 'elite status'.

I don't think that's true at all. This isn't an MMO where your balancing out classes that individual players are playing singularly. The moniker "elite" does not have the same connotations in an RTS. This is precisely why economy and upkeep are in place, to balance out certain details -- like a faction based on elite units.

However, my reasoning is also unnecessary. I played in WFA alpha very extensively, the army essence statement was very clear in explaining what they were attempting to achieve with OKW, which was an elite army built on a large array of elite options that required choice due to resources.

3rdly, veterancy emphasis. again means nothing. which faction do not need veterancy to survive in the field? the reason why okw infantry can vet to the high heavens is unknown, maybe for vehicles, yes because the fuel strain is there and they must preserve their vehicles and should be rewarded for it. but not for infantry, all faction MUST preserve their squads and again, the okw dont pay a premium for their infantry units, yet are able to vet to 5. this is not a real major problem early, but it adds up when volks with schrecks vet so fast to 5 and 4 k98 can hold the ground so long and dish out damage against dp-28s and conscript fire.

I think you're focusing on one part of a much larger post too much. I'm not sure why this point was singled out as there's a pretty simply retort.

Yes, all factions must preserve their squads, but model per model, this is not nearly as punishing for Allie as it is for Axis, and again more specifically, OKW.

One quick way to explain that without getting into number details -- the reason the ostheer sniper is NEVER played is a direct result of this problem. Picking off a model just doesn't matter half as much as it does versus axis. Now convert that to large scale warfare. I have to repeat myself. It's like comparing a precision laser's area of effect to four shotgun rounds.

4thly, again said for the sake of saying. all factions do not get the whole tech unlocked. soviets must choose between t3 and t4. Ostheer cannot unlock all battle phases and get tanks fast enough. what building decisions are you talking about that is so unique to the okw?

The placement? It would be foolish to argue that the British of CoH were not balanced around the idea of a forward operating base. It would be just as foolish to say that OKW was not meant to have that decision.