Profile of comm_ash

Thats why the p4 is more expensive. That the p4 wins against the t-34 is not imbalanced.




Mate many usf and okw players use the jackson/howie carrier or panther/luchs combo. This is something the current su and ost cannot do. you dont see many t-34's but at the same time you dont see many p4's either.

You are going in circles. First you claim that the P4 vs. T34/76 matchup isn't as skewed as I made it out to be, then when I disprove you, you state pricing. Thats not an argument, that is coming up with excuses.

The P4 can absolutely beat the T34/76 1v1. However, there is no reason for the P4 to be able to not only beat the T34/76 in a 1v1 engagement, yet also be able to get ALOT better with veterancy, and also come in the same numbers as the T34/76 for as long as it does (5v4 is still in the P4s favor, in terms of AI and AT). It would be fine if the soviets were able to reasonably get a TD out with T3, and tech up to a true T4 with good, specialist units, like the ostheer can, but currently soviet T3 < Ostheer T3, and Soviet T4 = Ost T3.

This leads to a game where the stock soviets at their latest point in the game, are worse than both German factions in every way. That is not Asymmetrical design, that is plain BAD DESIGN. If you expect the callin meta to ever be fixed, it HAS to come with a fix to the core soviet lategame, because currently the core soviets are completely hardcountered by a single Pak43/ELE/JT, since they have no armor capable of supporting their infantry against heavy TDs. (don't expect cons/penals to do shit lategame without armor support to kill axis long range lmgs squads), not to mention the fact that the low DPS zis is only enough to scare away armor, not kill it.

Just because Ostheer T3 is as rare as Soviet T3 is no reason to claim balance. Everyone plays the game to win at high skill levels, and thus go for callins, to fight Soviet callins. However, let us not forget that non-callin-meta Ostheer is perfectly viable. This is why we see so many strategies based around CAS doctrine that rely on infantry with maybe 1 tank work perfectly fine.

Soviet T3 needs to have some advantage over Ostheer lategame, seeing as how it is the end of your tech tree. USF gets great AI + great AT at the end of the tech. Ostheer gets the Panther + Brummbar, both very useful breakthrough tanks to support with your P4s that also scale very well. OKW gets the King Tiger nondoctrinally, which can be suppored by AT infantry and great armor options, as well as the Panther for the early late game. T3 soviets get 1 unit, the T34/76, which loses to everything out of the box, then loses EVEN MORE as units vet up. T3 + T4 soviets lose the armor equaity vs. Ostheer, but gain a Katyusha, which is useful to harass defensive positions and blobs, and an SU85, which is Hard Countered by a single Heavy AT source.

Price is no reason to make a unit terrible at all times in the game. The Sherman costs less than a P4, yet is much better vs. infantry and only worse vs. vehicles, plus has the utility of radio net and smoke. Grens are much cheaper than riflemen, yet scale much better into the lategame with lmgs and vet. The Jackson costs a lot less than a Panther, but is much better vs. heavy tanks. The T34/76 is less than the P4 and Sherman, but worse than both in EVERY WAY (except for like .3 speed and acceleration vs. the P4), while also being the sole source of both AT and AI in Soviet T3. If you want to increase the price, I don't think anyone will complain about the increase if it becomes a good scaling tank like the Sherman or the P4. If you decrease the price and keep same stats, noone will complain because then it will actualy be cost effective for and have the numbers it needs lategame to deal with heavies. If you do neither, and also kill callins, you get a Soviet faction that is even worse lategame than USF ever was.

Why do you blatantly ignore the fact that soviets have better call ins compared to the usf?
Yes they have somewhat weaker stock then the usf. They have far better callins and this will not change even with the changes made in the alpha. i see no reason for buffing the t-34



Mate this is the argument i do not wish to hear. And you basically invalided your entire argument.The t-34 is not meant to be spammed its meant to be used in conjunction with the TD's or AI tanks. You can spam 5 t-34's all you want its not going to change the fact that 1 p4 with 2 stugs is going to nail 5 t-34's to the wall. same goes for 5 p4's and 1 t-34 and 2 su85's.
But at the moment its difficult to get a t-34 and 2 su85's



The stats between the p4 and the t-34 is not as colossal as you make it out to be. 150 vs 180 armour and 20% less dps for the the t-34. that's why pay more for the p4. And while the mg does aid the p4 with AI its not free.

Holy shit dude. You can't use callins as an excuse to gimp the main faction. What about the 12 doctrines without IS2/t34/85/m4c? Should they never be used in favor of callins? Has anyone ever said that OKW is op because you can get p4 call in + kt?

The point of this thread is the need for the core soviet faction to have a decent medium tank to support itself. No army should rely on callins to such a crippling extent. Claiming that callins like the is2 are op (and rightly so), yet expecting the core army to remain as weak as it is currently is just hypocritical, when Ostheer has a great medium in the p4, yet isn't op when used to support a tiger.

If you think heavy callins meta late game is perfectly balanced and fun/ not cheesy to use and fight, then I question your sanity.

Now then, please try again.

Edit: in terms of your p4 vs. T34/76 statement. The t34 has a 100/180 chance to pen a stock P4 at mid range while the p4 has a 110/180 chance. This is at vet 0. At vet 2, the p4 gets over 220 effective armor at vet 2, giving the t34 < 50% to pen at mid and long ranges. At far, the t34 has 80 pen whole the p4 has 100. At close, both tanks have 120 pen.

And the t34 in no way is meant to be used in conjunction with other armor. It has 0 advantages that support armor foes (high dps, high survivability), and has NO LATEGAME units in its tier. People stop using t70s late game because t70s have 320hp (1 pak43/jt/ele, 2 pak), not because people suck. Su85's are almost impossible to tech to. T34s are absolutely meant to be spammed.

But... there's no Tiger in CAS...

I believe he is talking about Stuka CAS, the loitering ability in lightning war. Not only does it one shot medium armor and track targets, but it comes with a tiger!

Cas doctrine is fine imo, besides the ability to instantly convert fuel -> muni at 100% efficiency. Its the b loitering stupa CAS strafe that is hopelessly broken.

In terms of get out jail free cards, blitz is the only one I find stupid. Blitz should be an offensive ability, not a defensive one.

If an ostplayer went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

The 2 sentences are correct no ?

True, except for the fact that the P4 scales better into lategame with vet 2 armor skirts, which gives it similar survivability to an E8. On top of that, it is cheaper for a wehr player to tech T3 + T4 than it is for a sov player to tech T3 + T4. Ost T4 also gives access to the Panzerwerfer + Brummbar + Panther, which are bonafide lategame armor while soviet T4 only gives access to Katyussha + SU85, neither of which will help soviet stock armies from pushing fortified positions. (No High armor/ HP breakthrough tank)

Tiger is great. It is exactly what I think a heavy tank should be. A more durable, more generally effective medium that can be countered by AT guns and tank destroyers fairly easily. I would rather see the IS2 become more like the Tiger in terms of armor and damage.