jaegers are crap for the price, who in their right mind would use these guys over panzer fusiliers? 55mp to reinforce a single guy, lower squad size and even worse DPS than falls or obers despite being more expensive to maintain (Oh and no AT grenade/faust).
For me pathfinders are not really comparable, you build one squad to set your beacons up and they sit back as a sniper lite support unit for the rest of the game. Maybe if you are feeling particularly jammy you might recrew an AT gun with them to make use of their superior LoS.
Errm, I agree that the unit is expensive to reinforce, but they are amazing at anti-infantry duties at range. Since they only cost 290mp to spawn ANYWHERE, you could easily just let them die and spawn them in enemy fuel point buildings forever. I personally find them better than Fallshimjaeger. |
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I hope they fix the price soon, I played a 2v2 vs. some sturmtigers, and one of them just spammed the jaegers, and were able to just let them die a lot of the time because of the cheap cost, rather than having to reinforce them. |
both squads do about 10 dps at long range, but the jaeger light inf do 44 dps at near, while fusiliers only do about 34.
JLI also have 1.5 armor to help compensate their small squad size.
Errm, so they are far more powerful than upgunned Panzerfusiliers for the same cost? That definitely sounds like a bug. Makes sense why the corrected cost should be 440mp. |
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Ok, interesting, what do you mean by they cost 440 mp? Do you mean in terms of reinforcement cost or what? I'm pretty sure they enter the battlefield with 290mp cost. Doesn't this mean that it would almost be cheaper to just let them act as a throwaway squad? (55 x 4 = 220 for full reinforce.) |
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So here is my understanding, Jaeger light infantry and Pathfinders both cost 290 manpower:
Jaeger:
-4 man squad
-spawnable from buildings
-come with 4 G43 rifles
-Scavenge
-Infiltration Nade
-Booby Trap Territory
-Sprint
-Can Cloak in Cover
-Increased Sight Range
-Can't Cap Territory (Only Decap)
-CP 2
Pathfinder:
-4 man squad
-spawns at base
-2 m1 carbines and 2 springfield snipers with chance to instakill units with less than 40% HP
-Beacon
-Can Cloak in Cover
-Increased Sight Range
-Can pickup weapons from base
-CP 1
My question is, are Jaeger light infantry really balanced assuming they are meant to fulfill a similar role to Pathfinders? I am sure I am missing something here because I can't see how they cost the same. |
Why would you get a penal? Upgraded cons are way better.
I've been using something similar with great effects. 2 CEs with flamers, 3-4 cons and a M3a1. Then onto the rest of the tiers vs OKW and spam PPshs and arty. Vs Ostheer, call-ins are much safer.
Also, one interesting aspect of the penal battalion that I have found is the durability of the flamethrower. I may be crazy and blessed by the RNG gods, but my Penals have not exploded from a random shot in a couple of months now. CEs are a bit too squishy for me vs OKW as assault units, due to the Sturmpios amazing mid range DPS, although I believe that 2 engies is good if your decide to go defensive doctrine. The underused 7 muni anti-inf mine is amazing vs OKW due to their reliance on infantry units.
Damn, thank you. I'll give the T34s a shot. My only issue with defensive doctrine is that it comes out all at once so it's hard to utilize, but if you can keep the game locked in the early game, it might be brutal because then you can utilize it.
I agree that the defensive doctrine is a bit micro-intensive, but I find it great if you can secure a fuel point in 2v2, but your ally is having trouble on his side. It allows you to dig in with minimal units and send your main units to the other fuel point, not to mention the early-mid game power of the light AT gun, which utterly curbstomps OKW light vehicles and scatter infantry due to its fast reload. I would not recommend this doctrine for a 1v1 though. |
What do you think of the theory as a whole?
I think its a great theory, the 2 cons start is actually quite good vs OKW Sturmpioneers early game if you keep them in cover. They can easily hold the line until your M3 comes out with good micro.I find that 4 cons is a bit excessive in terms of manpower sink, and I prefer to have 1-2 Penals fast so I can put the flamers on them, allowing the Penals to scale into late game better. You also don't have to lose the ability to plant mines with your engineers, who won't be busy in the clown cars. In terms of doctrine, I have found good synergy with the defensive tactics commander, which is great in a 2v2 because it gives you access to T2 with more powerful mgs and mortars, as well as a light at gun. In 1v1, I find that the advanced warfare tactics is quite useful due to the latgame T34/85 and radio intercept, as well as PPSHs. I really like this strategy as a whole, and while its definitely not for everyone, it is one that I am going to be using for while. |
The largest is something like 11% rotation on an elephant
Which compounds to 36.7% if you stack it three times
Of course if you are in a situation where elephant rotation speed matters you are probably fucked
However all those 3% and 4% ones will stack to around 10 or 12% and that is pretty good
I would very much like shock troops with 33.1% less received suppression. Sleep well Germans (and especially Vetlolcake)! |
Actually, Penals scale really, really well into late game. They do loads of damage up close, and with the flamers they are even better.
I agree that Penals are great at dealing damage at close range, but late game the problem becomes getting them there. After the first mortars and vehicles come out, much of the infantry cover is gone, and Penals have to charge/ flank through Obersoldatan and Panzer fire. Their lack of armor makes it extremely easy to focus-murder them, and I don't believe they have accuracy modifiers. Anyways, I don't really have a problem with that, I just believe that the soviets should have at least one viable non-doctrinal defensive infantry. |
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The problem that I have is that conscripts AND penals both fulfill similar roles, close range combat units which don't scale well into the late game. The reason that maxim spam is so prevalent is because it is the only way to defeat German infantry without sticking a rifle in their face. If we could change the role of one of these units slightly to make them more adept at holding the line, perhaps by giving conscripts a version of the ostruppen cover buff, we could give the soviets more choices early and late game in terms of mainline infantry. (obviously this would also mean that the conscripts would have to lose some accuracy when not in cover/ on the move).
What do you guys think? |
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