Man, talk about misblaming stuff.
Funny, cos you arrive at the same conclusion I did.
T34 was better off before with better AI and a valid Ram.
Yet I must insist it was Sov whine for a PIV mirror that led to the current compromise.
Sov opinion at the time was resolutely for a PIV equivalent.
As I ssaid, at the time many Sov posters seemed to be under the ridiculous presumption that somehow T34 could retain its AI vs smaller units, have equal AT, a strong Ram, and still somehow cost less.
It was a ludicrous expectation, but they didnt càre.
We see the result now. A T34 that used to have a strong Ram function, strong AI, and ok AT vs T3 armor, at cheap cost, instead changed to a unit with equal AI, crippled Ram and slightly better AT, at cheap cost.
The whine misfired completely, and here we are now, with Sov even more dependanton callins- for AT because the quintessential asymmetric element of Ram was nerfed, for a small AT increase, and an AI equivalence that PIV can beat with Pintle upgrade, measured and benchmakred against thr fact that T34 was always going to remain cheaper than PIV, and hence aleays less AT capable.
Ost never had a case vs Ram. Fausts sufficed, as well as Blitz, to escape. Not to mention Rams rather buggy nature. Those Ostfambois who argued Ram was Op, where as wrong as those Sov who wanted T34 to match PIV in AT.
Id completely endorse Rams return as it was with the current AI/AT spread, at its current cost, with a token 10Muni cost for Ram.
The AI is naturalised, the AT is adequate at cost, but the Ram was the hidden value in Sov asymmetric alignment that needs to be reurned, to keep them valid as a tier unit, rather than relying on call-ins. |
http://www.bbc.com/news/27685494
Global public opinion of Russia is in the bottom 5.
Global public opinion of Germany is number one.
And this survey was taken BEFORE the Ukrainian Crisis.
There is also thr fact that Russia has never apologised for any of its conduct during WWII( or The Great Patriotic War as Russians call it) nor the 70 years thereafter of its predecessor the USSR, famous for an incalculable extent of violatio of human rights and civil liberties throughout its hegemony in "member states". People dont forget that stuff...
And I hope nobody here is trying to argue that balance is somehow the cause of matchmaking %, right? Cos that should obviously be discussed in dedicated balance threads related to specific issues.
This whole issue of "appeal" is a misnomer.
From a statistical perspective, Russia is currently extremely unpopular.
From a historifal perspective, the USSR was given carte blanche on attoricitiesnas a victor, and no apologizing was ever issued to this day.
From an ingame balance perspective, issues can and are addressed in dedicated unit specificbalance threads.
So how to increase raw appeal from Relics side?
I dunno. Make the uniforms pink? Would that help?
You cant blame people for having a preference, for whatevrr reason.
And you certainly cant call it a faction balance thing (especially when community polls repeatedl rank Sov high).
So yeah, ehat exactly is the actual point of this thread?
Is it just a generalised "buff Sov" thread disguised as "appeal", or a critique on public perspective of playinh as Russian/USSR, or about the uniform color... or what? |
There are certain members of the community who are inherently far more toxic than any Dev.
Let Relic worry about their own employee conduct.
We instead have far more serious concerns about toxic snake members of our own community. |
I'm sorry , but the t-34/76 as a PIV mirror was completely fine when it had the same kill AOE as sherman HE shells (pre-WFA) and it was also fine when it had a 5.5 reload time. However, now with it's 6.5 reload time, it is rather underperforming.
Even shermans with AP shells is more effective than the t-34/76 againts infantry. Not to mention that sherman also has the 0.50 cal and crazy good HE shells.
Thanks for agreeing. Yes, T34 used to have good AI efficacy.
Thanks for apologizing, ypu where one of the guys that caused this.
But guys likenypu whining about AT and Ram changed that to its current state as basically a cheap PIV mirror with obviously less AT effect, equal AI (unless PIV upgraded at justified cost), an obsolete Ram, and all that now justified by anlower price.
T34 was alright beforel but Sov whiners insisted on more AT, which at cost, obviously resulted in equal AI, and lessAT than PIV, with the Ram as a free element.
Did you really expect a T34 that is better AI, functional Ram, and equal or better AT than PIV, for less cost?
Cmon, thats just insane and unreasonable. You didnt actually expect that... or?
Be careful what you whine for, cos you just might get it. |
T34 and PIV AI are just about equal now.
Sure PIVs can MG upgrade, but that is at cost.
That used to be the tradeoff against T34s higher base AI vs smaller infantry units.
But ypu killed that with whine to make T34 a cheap PIV mirror.
It was Sov whiners who wanted Ram nerfed, which was inherently a free and asym,etric advantage. The result was this. A cheap PIV mirror, with equal AI till PIV upgrades, an obsolete Ram, and AT stats (both in offense and defence) that are obviously inferior to PIV stats due to cost difference anyways.
The whiners did it to themselves, and now callin-reliance is even greater as an additionap side effect.
It wasnt Axis fanbois eho caused that, it was Sov fanbois so fixated on a "better" T34 without realisijg or appreciating what they already had in Ram and instead ended up with an obvipusly inferior PIV version, because it obviously still costs less.
GJ! Next time count your blessings and dont take inherent advantages for granted, or you might not like whachanges your whine ends up in. |
All of which supports, as I said, the consequence of whining about the wrong things.
T34s used to carry value as a cost efficient disabler via Ram, but Sov whiners wanted a PIV equivalent, at less cost, for whatever reason. Result being a Ram nerf, an AI equaliztion (wheress before T34 was superior), and a small increase in AT as proportional to cost, which ofc ended up as less than PIV, due to cost.
GJ in pissing on your own head on this one, and making call-in armor dependancy even more prevalent on Sov.
Instead or a reliable and effective Ram, which was free and cost efficient as an asymmetric equalizer and advantage, instead you have T34 which ofc logically and at cost is inferior to the PIV anyways with roughly the same AI (whereas before it was greater), minus PIVs native arsymmetric MG upgrade for Muni, and with a slightly improved AT.
T34 was better off before, but Sov whiners insisted on a change that actually ended up compromising two of the units core and cost effective advantages, in favor of better AT stats which where obviously going to be inferior to PIV anyways, due to cost discrepancy.
You did this to yourself, and is typical of "only Sov" player perspectives, who seem to completely discount and ignore the original design featured in asymmetric design which gave Sov inherent advantages.
T34 Ram amd AI was great back in the day, with appreciable AT, for cost.
Thanks to the whine, instead there is now an obsolete Ram, equal AI (until Axis MG upgrades), for a small increase at AT stats and survival, that is measured against cost, and hence obvipusly inferior to PIV anyways.
Your whine did that. Gj on changing T34 into the cheap PIV mirror you wanted, but losing the AI advantage which was so useful vs smaller Axis units, AS WELL as the Ram reliability, whivh came for free as an asymmetric compromise and free micro/situational advantage. |
T34s were good, because they were always there and were easily replaced en mass.
Here, in coh2 its 5 T34 for 4 P4s, which doesn't give any advantage at all as 4 P4s will still walk over 5 T34s, so the only historical T34 advantage-availability doesn't exist in coh2, while all P4 advantages except range do exist.
And vet bonuses difference makes the gap into a huge rift, because T34s could just as well start with vet3 and still be equally ineffective.
Irony there being that Ram was nerfed and value redistributed, as a result of Sov whine.
Ram used to be a fantastic cost-efficient equalizer vs T3 grade armor.
Goes to show you need to be careful what you whine about enmasse, cos younmight like the alternative even less.
Furthernore, at cost, IF the guide section is updated:
4x PIV= 1280/460
4× T34= 1220/340
Meaning at pure unit cost, without including tier cost, which Im too lazy to add, 4xPIV should beat 4xT34 anyways.
5× T34= 1400/425
So even there, at fuel cost which is primary in vehicle comparison, 4xPIV should still beat 5xT34.
Ram used to make up the difference as a free tactical disabler, exchanging a cheaper armor for a more expensive one, but Sov whine lead to its nerfing in favor of better T34 bsse stats.
With Ram as it was, 5xT34w could categorically beat 4xPIVs, by Ramming with 4, and finishing them off with the 5th. But Sov whine changed that. |
Sounds good, and good job on clearly stating a stand from community manager and company perspective.
On Relic side, yes I think more emphasis on professional detachment and reminding staff that they represent the company first on paid time is good. Also Id encourage directing feedback through more official channels and structured formats (such as standardized feedback questionaires on specific issues and directed itemised discussion), rather than privileged buddy lists on Steam as is worrisomely prevalent currently. As the saying goes, "familiarity breeds contempt". A more formal, standardised and structured feedback system helps keep issues on point, get feedback on what is really needed, improve quality of feedback and more transparency without suspicions of biased or preferential treatment of individual community members.
Currently it bares more resemblance to a school playground, rather than an adult, structured, company/community interface. Informality has its perks, but also runs the risk of incidents like this. Its better to have a core formalised structure around which to have some informality towards trusted community members who have proven themselves by contributing through that system.
From a community perspective, its somewhat hypocritical to take umbrage at Devs, as individuals, being "toxic" to certain community members, who themselves are evenmoreso toxic in much of their conduct both towards Relic and community. We may not have responsibilities to an employer in terms of our conduct, but that is no excuse for bad behavior. Unfortunately, we have many such people, and they in turn represent the community badly, and as is shown now force Relic to formalize and restrict freedoms in community interaction. If we cant be trusted to behave, then we cant expect Relic to extend more casual and less restricted feedback channels to us in turn.
__________________________________________________
-Relic: Structure and direct feedback through proper channels, in formats that are professional, organised and as transparent to the rest of contributors as possible. The Steam buddy list thing has to stop. No more private PMs as "feedback". Route feedback through designated forums, moderated membered chatrooms, and directed discussion on specifics that are of concern to you.
-Community: Coh2.org has a remarkably tolerant moderation. Dont abuse it. Its verynimportant to this site and all the effort that has gone into it, that they maintain a reputation of respectful relatiins with Relic, dont endanger that. Dont piss on our hosts efforts here in that regard, or you are pissing on all of us. To coh2.org moderation, try to promote as objective and rational discussion as possible, so we can maintain a standard of posting worthy of this site.
The site itself, in terms of functions and interface, is seriously first class, but quality of content also matters, as does board culture. We dont want another GR! No buddyism, no gangbanging, as little shitposting as possible. Know what I mean? Everyine loves a little drama from time to time, but really what we want is threads with as informed, respectful, constructive and objective discussion related to the GAME. There is a lot of unregistered traffic, and registered lurkers. Try to remember what the vast majority of readers want. They dont want to wade through threads of trash. They want the quality stuff, as concisely, ontopic, objective and relevant as possible. They have neither the time, interest or care to wade throught the shit. We dont have an upvote or "like" function to support real quality posters, but that doesnt change that the vast majority of traffic simply disregard or at worst close the browser when certain shitposters try to drag threads down to their level and bias.
One serious cause of this, is your restricted internal boards. If you skim the cream of best posters off to a private board, you leave the public side in the hands of lower quality posters, and board culture and content takes a nosedive. I strongly encourage you to return our best posters back to the public. We need them to keep up the niveau. They can and do post with real knowledge, experience and authority, as well as generally having moreobjective interest in thr game itself. We need them back to keep up quality of discussion dor the majority of readers/lurkers who are currently at the mercy of shitposters who are steadily dragging down the board culture to their level. We want, and need, these guys back. I know they also dont want to deal with the shit in public board, but believe me, the overwhelming majority of lurking readers will support them and read them, and I for one, of more vocal posters, also will do my damndest to give them the respect and consideration they deserve for their efforts. That is a good board culture, and the overwhelming majority of lurkers will appreciate that immeasurably, as well as encoutaging many of them to become vocal in the tone that is set by these quality posters. |
Yeah, not only smoke is a counter to button. Blitz can also free your tank easily.
Guard Riflemen DP-28 ‘Button’
The intent of these changes is to provide the opposing player an opportunity to react and counter the usage of button. Currently, the ability is very one sided, it provides the Soviet player with a quick and easy to execute vehicle snare without much counterplay in-between. By providing the opposing player with a way to react, the counter-play relative to unit positioning is better defined, thus reducing the receiving player’s frustration when the ability is executed.
Speed reduction from 0.1 to 0.33
Added rotation reduction of 0.33
Acceleration from 0.1 to 0.5
Deceleration from 8 to 2
Main gun set to active
Main gun rate of fire set to fire 1.56x slower
'Nuff said. |
A lone MG42 can defend a point against an enemy push, a lone maxim can only scare lone squads.
This is just completely false. |