Howdy!
One other meta that has caught my attention since December has been the abundance of USF Mortar HTs in teamgames. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter and how has it affected the overall gameplay experience and enjoyability.
I find them to be pretty cost effective and decently easy to spam because of their low manpower cost of 200. The 30 fuel definitely isn't a huge sum of fuel to pay either for a unit with such good mobility and rate of fire. Many people have seemed to realize the potency of the white phosphorus rounds. They can be easily spammed for the low cost of 25 munitions. (should not be a problem for a faction that is not really munitions starved) The ability to rapidly drain the health of enemy support weapons usually always forces a hard retreat because of the huge wipe risk. That can buy the Allied players a great amount of map control when the axis have to spend time to fully heal their squads. It will also take a long while to get from 1% HP to acceptable levels. Often the snowball effect gained from the increased map control and the huge harassment done to support weapons will snowball into very strong mid and lategame.
Synergy of the mortar HTs seems to be best with lieutenant builds that rely on .50 cal. MG spam which will rapidly suppress advancing axis infantry and make them a sitting targets for the mortars to barrage. Bazooka blobs / few REs equipped with them combined with AP rounds of the MG will keep all light vehicles at bay with proper micro and will usually buy enough time for the mortar HTs to escape when mediums hit the field.
One of the biggest peculiarities I find with the unit is the cost of the phosphorous that is considerably cheaper compared to the axis counterpart of incendiary shells . They are usually a lot less effective and the threshold of using the incendiary is a lot higher since Wehr is a munitions starved faction unlike the USF. Also the reaction time to dodge the fire damage is a lot more forgivable compared to the rapid health loss from white phosphorous.
Now for my personal opinion of this strategy. It is obviously a "one trick pony" build that can net a lot of cheesy wins against players that are not used to dealing with such aggressive and mobile artillery spam. Many wehr players play cautiously and I think such strats will punish them the most and usually a risky dive is needed to be able to deal with the halftracks. The effectiveness of WP makes it easy for the halftracks to fire the barrage and then quickly relocate before a counterattack is made while the damage has been already done. Also the net gain from the dives can be of questionable value since individual halftracks are easy to replace and the white phosphorus will be strong even in the late game so loss of vet should not be too big of a deal.
I would place the fun factor of playing against this strategy (far too often nowadays) on the lines of breaking a double Pre-December Simcity in Minks Pocket as double wehr. It is beatable but you will probably feel frustrated after the match and the effort you had to put into it was much more considerable compared to your opponents efforts.
I've included a replay of a generic mortar HT strategy as an example to people who aren't familiar with this meta.
I'd like to hear what the community has to say about the matter and is the status quo acceptable or is a change desirable.
Profile of SweetrollNearTheDoor
General Information
Steam: 76561198042954128
Residence: Finland
Nationality: Finland
Timezone: Europe/Helsinki
Game Name: SweetrollWerfingNearTheDoor
Steam: 76561198042954128
Residence: Finland
Nationality: Finland
Timezone: Europe/Helsinki
Game Name: SweetrollWerfingNearTheDoor
Signature
Post History of SweetrollNearTheDoor
Thread: USF Mortar Halftrack meta30 Mar 2018, 20:38 PM
In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Example Of USF Mortar HT Spam30 Mar 2018, 20:31 PM
Example of the more and more common attempts at USF cheesy indirect meta. In: Replays |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8530 Mar 2018, 10:26 AM
I bet there is a certain chance that every minor patch like the Jerry Can HD Texture fix might bring the autoloaders back tbh In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8529 Mar 2018, 06:51 AM
Back in the day there were plenty of meme units in T4s on both sides, like the brummbar and katy. (Although I'm pretty sure relic increased the meme value of katy by making it almost instagib OKW HQs for a while) The British AEC was never built either so the splash damage was boosted to ridiculous levels. After the re-nerfs you still see it in most games so a nerf doesn't mean the unit will never be seen again. (RIP CalliOpieOP) Back in the day most non-doctrine soviet armor had trouble with axis tanks (SU76, SU85, T34/76) and that is part of the reason the call in meta was dominant in every mode. That does not change the seemingly common consensus that the unit is in a peculiar spot right now. In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8528 Mar 2018, 13:22 PM
I assume this listing is a comparison of different units put into a similar category and not just a random bunch of units from different factions.
I specifically said non-doctrinal TDs. Last time Elephant was non-doctrinal was around open beta in 2013. Panther is not a normal tank destroyer because of its decent "good spot trademark" anti-infantry firepower. Panther is not a better version of a stug and they perform different roles. If that were the case it would always be a good idea to replace every lost stug with a panther to perform the same role but better. This part is once again pretty trivial since the original point is the comparison between SU76 and SU85 which is a thing that exists as a non-doctrinal unit in soviet Tier 4 structure. If you ignore that fact this discussion is of questionable use as the SU85 and its efficiency compared to SU76 is not taken to account. This has been repeated several times by now. (And personally I wouldn't call an SU76 to a medium TD, otherwise SU85 would be a Heavy TD which its certainly not) In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8528 Mar 2018, 09:26 AM
I have yet to see a few pumas park themselves in front of an ISU or an IS2 and slug it out and win without losses. On the other hand I definitely headbutted an Elephant with SU76s yesterday and it died in under 30 seconds by my estimate. Pumas will do fine lategame when preserved but they need to flank their opponents to get reliable penetrations and most lategame tanks will return fire because of the lower range of 50 instead of the SU76s 60 range. The range difference is a big factor here. You can kite with 60 range units, with 50 range not so much. That has a big effect on the life expectancy of a unit if it can stay out of harms way most of the time while still being able to do decent damage. Now my original point was not about the interaction with tank destroyers of other factions but between SU76 and SU85 which you seemed to miss/ignore. The thing is Stugs and JP4s are the axis lategame non-doctrinal TDs so they need to be able to handle heavy armor as well as medium armor. SU76 on the other hand is not the Soviet lategame tank destroyer, that honor goes to SU85. So do you think it is intended design or beneficial to the gameplay that the T3 SU76 yields better/similar results compared to its counterpart while being cheaper, in a lower tech tier, more mobile, has better utility, better RoF and anti infantry capabilities? This is a matter between two soviet units and their performance and does not necessarily require comparisons between other factions' TDs. In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8528 Mar 2018, 06:01 AM
I wonder what the reason for its removal was. The price was set to pretty low, 10 munitions if memory serves so that wouldn't punish normal use but still discourage senseless spamming. I think every ability should have a cost to it so you have to make a conscious choice to spend your resources there and have to trade them off from other uses. As of right now the barrage should be used every opportunity it is off cooldown to get the most out of it. Are there any real explanations to it why there are these few niche abilities that are completely munitions free to use? One other that comes to mind is the British AT gun sprint which can be a real life saver sometimes. (I'd rather pay munitions for that rather than to wipe my squad for a fee with Volley Fire on RE's for example) In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8527 Mar 2018, 11:35 AM
Not sure if making it useless late game is an viable option. The SU-76 is fine on its own, so if the problem is spam why not simply strongly increase its popcap so spaming it comes at a cost. You might want to take a look at the replays. Do you think it is beneficial to the gameplay experience when three Su76s kill an Elephant frontally? A late game doctrinal heavy tank destroyer countered without any flanks, without Mark target and with a significantly smaller investment with a unit Elephant should be able to hardcounter. (Snowball effect from damage buff and RoF buffs from veterancy + good penetration to begin with) In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: Performance and cost efficiency of massed SU76s vs SU8527 Mar 2018, 11:07 AM
Welp, I decided to hop on the other side of the aisle and get some first hand experience with SU76 spam. Soviets are not my strongest suite so I had to rely on cheesy double sniper builds to get through early game, which must have been extremely frustrating for the Axis side. I've also never done such a cheese strategy with SU76s before so there were some misplays and questionable build orders as a result. This strategy definitely requires some practice to get used to it. I managed to get three replays trying to get the most out of SU76 hordes. Rest of my time went to Radar Simulator Deluxe and I know it is not the greatest sample size. 2 of the games were pretty average ones but I think SU76s were indeed an excellent replacement for clunky SU85s. (also it turns out it's not the best idea to try and use non-turreted units on Essen and forcing this build on every map is not super effective *mind blown* ) I found their ability to burst down medium armor very quickly from the front quite scary. Also the freebie barrages will clear support weapons and are good at harassing blobs when massed. The low cost and saved resources from ignoring T4 made replacing them extremely easy and it felt always worthwhile to trade an SU76 for axis armor piece. (Turns out it's pretty difficult to lose a TD with 60 range if you keep kiting and don't get greedy) ISU152 with Mark Vehicle seemed to be the natural commander pick for this commander but I found that Mark Target is not even needed most of the time because of the good rate of fire from the TDs. The Redball Express match gave the best environment to use this strat with it's good pathing and large open areas. I also got an opportunity to headbutt a Heavy Tank Destroyer with my 3 vetted SU76s without Mark Target and I must say the result was pretty baffling. Overall I think most of the losses I took were because of my own greed and lazy micro, not because my opponent outplayed me. Suffiecient recon with flares etc will keep SU76s from harms way most of the time. Pathing issues and traffic jams probably are the greates threat but that applies to most tanks. (As a final sidenote my poor sniper micro did't really get punished especially on Redball Express where i forgot them in red cover in front of a blob or in front of an MG which I think is pretty peculiar indeed)
In: COH2 Gameplay |
Thread: First SU76 build27 Mar 2018, 10:33 AM
First try attempting to do this start specifically so misplays included. In: Replays |
662140662138662051661911661741661688661665661498661494661487
Latest replays uploaded by SweetrollNearTheDoor
-
VSSweetrollWerfingInAGoodSpot Red [S.T.A.R] Bleckdragon Assasin314719643 [Phoenix] ЯUSSIANS ARE GODS MIYUKIAOIExample replay for threadby: SweetrollNearTheDoor map: Steppes1-900
-
That warm feeling when Jackson hits the good spotby: SweetrollNearTheDoor map: Lienne Forest1-817
-
This is why Goat Sacrifices for the RNG God are necessaryby: SweetrollNearTheDoor map: Minsk Pocket3-1,379
-
VSVodka & Seliodka xcngray rpm2014 Syberia Red ArmyDoomcloud [DT] Barka SweetrollWerfingNearTheDoor DasReich1-901
6877667713279222582519926
Livestreams
27 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.1772443.800+4
- 2.521216.707+18
- 3.68702504.733+5
- 4.1534535.741+3
- 5.16160.729+6
- 6.395256.607+1
- 7.216126.632+1
- 8.251139.644-1
- 9.368196.652+6
- 10.517330.610+1
- 1.2175902.707-1
- 2.26988.754-1
- 3.11924.832+2
- 4.26389.747+3
- 5.446297.600+1
- 6.284124.696+12
- 7.224107.677+3
- 8.214109.663+1
- 9.16258.736-1
- 10.957512.651+6
- 1.1464740.664+4
- 2.426130.766+2
- 3.358218.622-1
- 4.818467.637-1
- 5.11952.696+3
- 6.571419.577+4
- 7.484229.679-1
- 8.309178.634+7
- 9.496337.595-1
- 10.283177.615-1
- 1.346157.688+1
- 2.338104.765-2
- 3.898246.785+6
- 4.589254.699+11
- 5.698336.675-2
- 6.937584.616+3
- 7.273136.667+10
- 8.1509995.603+9
- 9.199152.567+2
- 10.12034.779+10
- 1.28441027.735+1
- 2.547194.738+28
- 3.506159.761+17
- 4.940377.714+1
- 5.1360445.753+14
- 6.1715873.663-1
- 7.536310.634+25
- 8.917379.708+4
- 9.348186.652+4
- 10.631379.625-1
- 1.30591505.670-1
- 2.340175.660+5
- 3.251123.671-1
- 4.529386.578+4
- 5.22273.753+5
- 6.177101.637+5
- 7.1308788.624+3
- 8.855493.634+6
- 9.21801362.615+3
- 10.1191613.660+6
- 1.781375.676+10
- 2.482286.628+3
- 3.434170.719-1
- 4.16556.747-1
- 5.357265.574-1
- 6.480243.664+1
- 7.10932.773+4
- 8.25691.738+1
- 9.244150.619+6
- 10.1012542.651+2
- 1.346135.719+1
- 2.731386.654+1
- 3.322177.645-1
- 4.936700.572+3
- 5.1262745.629-1
- 6.656488.573-1
- 7.446351.560+8
- 8.460320.590+2
- 9.578390.597+8
- 10.266156.630+1
- 1.4182941.816+1
- 2.1833774.703+9
- 3.478221.684+1
- 4.73682731.730+4
- 5.1383535.721+2
- 6.578283.671+10
- 7.658206.762+13
- 8.394121.765+2
- 9.14962.706+10
- 10.702379.649-1
- 1.1481641.698-1
- 2.20349.806+6
- 3.16121158.582+2
- 4.698436.616+4
- 5.665345.658+11
- 6.19021281.598+6
- 7.17868.724+4
- 8.667255.723+4
- 9.378206.647+3
- 10.371193.658+1
- 1.488177.734+6
- 2.506212.705+8
- 3.646294.687+4
- 4.24969.783+4
- 5.844381.689+3
- 6.698308.694+3
- 7.255115.689-1
- 8.1183850.582+1
- 9.306154.665+1
- 10.526233.693-2
- 1.422176.706+6
- 2.675312.684+6
- 3.15140.791+3
- 4.380184.674+11
- 5.739305.708+1
- 6.236221.516-1
- 7.1708830.673+2
- 8.243215.531+3
- 9.970475.671+3
- 10.1479811.646+2
- 1.1089410.726+3
- 2.25979.766+10
- 3.2025686.747+29
- 4.398150.726+29
- 5.603164.786+4
- 6.35111732.670+2
- 7.19188.685+14
- 8.694282.711+3
- 9.179102.637-1
- 10.21331.873+2
- 1.26481442.647+4
- 2.276165.626+3
- 3.460191.707-1
- 4.18493.664+1
- 5.750331.694+4
- 6.402175.697+11
- 7.285128.690+8
- 8.191111.632+5
- 9.479202.703+3
- 10.16860.737+3
- 1.30961001.756+10
- 2.9316.853+16
- 3.695400.635+5
- 4.642336.656+8
- 5.698366.656-2
- 6.346148.700+5
- 7.255101.716-2
- 8.446162.734+6
- 9.687234.746-1
- 10.1160710.620-1
- 1.12191049.537+3
- 2.403313.563+2
- 3.336246.577+4
- 4.851721.541+5
- 5.15866.705-1
- 6.13887.613+3
- 7.463299.608+2
- 8.482333.591-1
- 9.689541.560+2
- 10.422316.572+2
- 1.831222.789+37
- 2.616222.735+1
- 3.35057.860+15
- 4.1110614.644+11
- 5.276108.719+27
- 6.306114.729+2
- 7.918405.694+2
- 8.262137.657+3
- 9.722440.621+4
- 10.1041674.607-2
- 1.20141083.650+9
- 2.569354.616-1
- 3.11949.708+10
- 4.427271.612+2
- 5.1677922.645+2
- 6.10136.737+4
- 7.434208.676+3
- 8.189101.652+1
- 9.20968.755+7
- 10.288121.704-1
- 1.755286.725+3
- 2.21590.705+18
- 3.16948.779-1
- 4.603178.772+3
- 5.1015554.647+6
- 6.981427.697+3
- 7.324127.718+12
- 8.359155.698-1
- 9.1429717.666+1
- 10.36059.859+2
- 1.776618.557+6
- 2.569415.578+3
- 3.232122.655+2
- 4.398285.583+1
- 5.311206.602+2
- 6.194157.553+10
- 7.13347.739+3
- 8.239169.586+5
- 9.250135.649+1
- 10.197159.553+1
Data provided by
Relic Entertainment
Replay highlight
VS
- cblanco ★
- 보드카 중대
- VonManteuffel
- Heartless Jäger
Einhoven Country
Honor it
9
Download
1236
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX
Board Info
829 users are online:
829 guests
0 post in the last 24h
5 posts in the last week
33 posts in the last month
5 posts in the last week
33 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49140
Welcome our newest member, Drummer
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM
Welcome our newest member, Drummer
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM