The same conversation about Panthers, Comets, and the other zoo animals has been going in parallel in another thread.
Regarding Panther vs Comet, let's, first, acknowledge some hard facts:
Now, regarding the SU-85 comment.
1 second difference makes a HUGE difference when the original quantity is tiny.
- an 1-second increase for something that took 4 seconds to complete means that it is now 20% less efficient.
- an 1-second increase for a huge cooldown (e.g., B4 barrage) is not noticeable at all.
Cumulatively, the SU will fire 1.9 times slower than before.
This is a -50% performance reduction for anything with armour 190 or below (T3, JP4, etc). The SU-85 paid a heavy price to get its penetration and accuracy increased, so that it no longer fires dud shells vs Panthers and the like (and that the Soviets get a reliable counter to Panther-spam).
Now, what do you propose that the Panther sacrifice so that its RoF increases? Don't you agree that the charts show it is already very powerful as it is?
Reduce panther penetration..its not needed that much.Reduce panther vet 2,3 bonuses a bit ,done.comet is better than panther still because it can kill AT guns on its own and wipe squads.The 200 plus and increasing pen of allied TD and their range makes panther armour increasingly less and less imposing..tiger armor is already a bit of a joke.
Completely ignored the fact that comet can wipe infantry..panther can maybe kill a single model with difficulty in 10 seconds.The panther gun is dud.And allied TD pen increase only make its armor advantage less relevant.
Panther has no impact relative to the cost of fielding it.Its only imposing in large teamgames when u can mass large numbers of them.A dud gun on mobile fortress,means they are overshadowed for their price by allied options like comet,t-34/85 ,jackson.
Allied tank destroyers keep getting pen buffs,yet german tank armour is staying largely static.The only reason panther is useable was becoz of the armour buff a while back.Tiger front armour is now something allied armor laughs at.
1.Ostwind better accuracy and AOE
2.PZ 4 slightly better penetration(main gun less pen than bazooka)
3.Panther increase ROF
4.Tiger increase front armor to 320.
5.T4 unlock gren 5th man upgrade(give con dp upgrade to compensate soviet)
6.Nerf indirect fire range of british earlygame emplacement to which ost has no real counter except doctrinal fuel based asset.
P4 is unchanged for well over a year now when it comes to its killing potential, its just as effective as it was in 2014 and 15.
Nothing changed here.
If you want to know what medicore and not even good vs infantry is, let me point you to soviet T4, there should be rusty, unused T34/76 there.
Don't shoot it on the move, it does the job fine.
As Mr. Someguy said, ost T4 is an extra, thing you go for in long games, not something you should be getting every game reliably. It offers heaviest stuff out of all armies that only OKW can contest(not counting brits as they got rain of nerfs that washed them out of game for now).
It doesn't really kill infantry that fast,did spreading out formations have anything to do with that?As for t-34=just compare the price man.Cromwell is better than p4 -and by what logic.
It doesn't do job fine for its price due to huge reload,shooting on move has nothing to do with that.
T4 can't be called extra because it has wehrmacht's only counter to allied blobs lategame -panzerwerfer .Thus it needs to be more accessible.Give gens 5 man upgrade lategame or pzgrens to counter vetted allied infantry blobs and you could then say extra.not before.
Thats exactly what i mean,panzer 4 is very modeiocre for its price - and not even that good vs infantry anymore.
On top ostwind is not very good with long reloads and accuracy.
Only build it behind obstacle or building somewhat to the rear in 2 vs 2 or above.Its only useful if it has not been spotted till it gets its first hits on an ennemy tank.It will have paid for itself in that first engagement.