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russian armor

Wehr weak penetration

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16 Oct 2019, 14:45 PM
#81
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:34 PMLoren

The tanks mentioned in this article are all heavy class or equivalent tanks. And heavy class is, of course, difficult to penetrate.


Thats the thing as spoken in this article at hand. Penetration of heavies IS tougher for Wehrboos.

I cite another example that a Cromwell can hit Elefant with more pain than a P4 can hit a Croc.
16 Oct 2019, 14:47 PM
#84
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:39 PMmrgame2


More i think of this. More i like it as a quick fix.

Sure Vipper have thrown more holstic suggestions with P4 and 60TD, i also made other suggestions.

But at this stage, as spoken by sanders, Relic does not want more effort into the game. So a HEAT rounds seems like a good balance. We already see Okw perform with it and i doubt any objections to 'HEAT'. get "it" hehe


panzer 4 buffs are unecessary... they are quite balanced against allied mediums and although outclassed by allied premium mediums... the panther likewise outclasses allied premium mediums in much the same way aswell..

likewise any proposal for panther buffs meanwhile are pure unadulterated nonsense....

what wehr needs imo is a light tank... the panzer 4D suggestion was a FAR more logical suggestion than any of youre nonsensical threads...

https://www.coh2.org/topic/99644/short-barreled-p4-for-ost/page/2

though i would prefer a panzer 3M or a panzer 3F for OST instead...
16 Oct 2019, 14:52 PM
#85
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

And what would a light tank achieve? Besides admitting Wehr infantry/team weapons/support/static design is weak, has been weak for many moons since the power creep?
Like we didnt know?
Does not helps with pen/late game issue at all.
16 Oct 2019, 15:00 PM
#86
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:52 PMmrgame2

Does not helps with pen/late game issue at all.


there is NO lategame pen issue... there isnt even a lategame infantry issue with the new grenadier buffs...

there is however a midgame "i dont have a light tank to beat back the T-70/stuart/flakHT/AEC issue"
and the fact that a flame HT doesnt really give as much shock as a T-70 or a stuart

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:52 PMmrgame2
And what would a light tank achieve?


it would achieve shock... something wehr lacks until it gets its first panzer 4... which by then provided the T-70/stuart/flakHT/aec hasnt pushed you off the map means you would be in a pickle knowing the light vehicle meta we have...

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:52 PMmrgame2

Besides admitting Wehr infantry/team weapons/support/static design is weak, has been weak for many moons since the power creep?


all of these are fine... this is just you...


16 Oct 2019, 15:05 PM
#87
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Here i come with which i hope, is the only sensible idea in this nightmare sea of convoluted and exaggerated POVs.

The PV is fine.
The pak is fine.

What IF, we swap vet2/vet3 on the Stug.

Give the higher Rof boost and mobility sooner and leave the armor (which is mostly irrelevant for the Stug) and smaller RoF as vet 3.
16 Oct 2019, 15:06 PM
#89
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

im still in for a new OST light vehicle as opposed to stug changes... the stug still eats practically any allied medium or premium medium anyways...

hmm would a reskinned resized panzer 4D with the designation panzer 3F somehow pass off as a panzer 3F?
16 Oct 2019, 15:15 PM
#90
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


What IF, we swap vet2/vet3 on the Stug.

Give the higher Rof boost and mobility sooner and leave the armor (which is mostly irrelevant for the Stug) and smaller RoF as vet 3.


Why not turn the armor buff into a health one while we're at it? In vet 3
16 Oct 2019, 15:28 PM
#91
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Why not turn the armor buff into a health one while we're at it? In vet 3


If the vet is swapped you could. Replacing the armor gained with +160HP, making it go from 560HP > 720HP would make it more survivable than making it have PIV levels of armor.

Maybe in this way, people would stop spamming PV when they actually need a Stug in their lives.

16 Oct 2019, 15:36 PM
#92
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



If the vet is swapped you could. Replacing the armor gained with +160HP, making it go from 560HP > 720HP would make it more survivable than making it have PIV levels of armor.


Yup and I dont think it would be too strong given where the buff is. Vet 3 stug spam could be scary, but youd still have to get them to that lvl in the first place
16 Oct 2019, 16:04 PM
#93
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Viper analogy between allied TDs and Panther is all fair. Just some trolls derailing his arguments to nonsensical territory.

Af this thread is full of axis bias juice is also full of alliebabies tears.

Allied players always point cost efficiency of units and panther is bad on both, get real people.

Panther frontal armor was the only feature of it and now it's like it doesnt exists, because of the high pen of allied TD but also the mediums pen buffs to fight P4s.
16 Oct 2019, 16:08 PM
#94
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Panther frontal armor was the only feature of it and now it's like it doesnt exists, because of the high pen of allied TD but also the mediums pen buffs to fight P4s.


It has 960 health and its armor is still 100 better than any allied medium tank. 50 range also still gives a huge advantage over any medium on top of those things
16 Oct 2019, 16:11 PM
#95
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Here i come with which i hope, is the only sensible idea in this nightmare sea of convoluted and exaggerated POVs.

The PV is fine.
The pak is fine.

What IF, we swap vet2/vet3 on the Stug.

Give the higher Rof boost and mobility sooner and leave the armor (which is mostly irrelevant for the Stug) and smaller RoF as vet 3.


Is the skirts animation for vet 2 tied to vet 2? If so obviously that would be a graphical issue.
16 Oct 2019, 17:40 PM
#96
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



It has 960 health and its armor is still 100 better than any allied medium tank. 50 range also still gives a huge advantage over any medium on top of those things

I understand what you say, but you must also post the allied tanks pen to turn those armor values into %pen at different ranges. That coupled with in game dynamics and economy, therefore becomes a very complex equation.

But to summarize, In game footage proves panthers are lagging behind.
16 Oct 2019, 17:48 PM
#98
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


I understand what you say, but you must also post the allied tanks pen to turn those armor values into %pen at different ranges. That coupled with in game dynamics and economy, therefore becomes a very complex equation.


I agree it's complex, but I don't see how you can go from that to saying the footage proves they are behind

16 Oct 2019, 22:44 PM
#99
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979


I understand what you say, but you must also post the allied tanks pen to turn those armor values into %pen at different ranges. That coupled with in game dynamics and economy, therefore becomes a very complex equation.

But to summarize, In game footage proves panthers are lagging behind.


What? No allied stock medium can take on a panther 2v1 frontally...

Allied premium mediums stand a better chance but are still more likely to lose in a frontal 2v1

The only real counter thus far are the heavy tank destroyers... and theyre SUPPOSED to be the counter
17 Oct 2019, 01:21 AM
#100
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 22:44 PMgbem


What? No allied stock medium can take on a panther 2v1 frontally...

This thing called flanking? No idea what that about.

Allied premium mediums stand a better chance but are still more likely to lose in a frontal 2v1

The only real counter thus far are the heavy tank destroyers... and theyre SUPPOSED to be the counter

It seems you are forgetting a little tiny itti bitty detail...

TD BEATS ANY OTHER TANK, PANTHERS ARE ALSO TDs...

Therefore, if "heavy tank destroyers" are beating panther, why isnt the other way around? If both are by definition, tank destroyers.
But to make matters worse, those called "heavy tank destroyers" are also by performance "medium tank destroyers"
Panthers vs allied premium mediums, get outmatched by cost effectiveness, not on a dumb idle fight maybe, but on one involving real and medium skilled players, panthers often get outnumbered or outranged

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