Soviet September patch discussion

KV-1
The KV-1 has received some changes to make it better suited as a defensive tank at later levels of veterancy and allow it to threaten exposed infantry that would try to bypass it.

- Added Hulldown mode for veterancy 1
- Hulldown grants -15% reload time, and -20% received damage
- Increased performance on the hull and coaxial machine guns to match those of the T-34/76

The -20% received damage is far too excessive. Seen tightrope's video? It took 5 penetrating panther shots at medium range to bring it down to 1/3 health lol. Can this be changed to -10%?

Also, the IS2 new Fragmentation Shell seems quite lackluster. It doesn't do more damage than one well placed normal round to infantry, and its stun lasts only 2-2,5 seconds. Quite short. 4 seconds would be more suitable. Especially considering the reload for it to fire takes pretty long.

Yes considering the command p4 aura nerf..even -10% is pretty op for cheap kv1 call in.

And no i think is2 frag shells are already a bonus replacement over capture point. Stug twp is just as useless or worse.

But is2 stays around longer, at vet 50 range support with su85, it is very deadly extra bonus.

Seens Soviet are getting random buff from nowhere, no?

The KV1 changes are indeed well over the top especially the -20% received damage.

Yea makes it worse aint it?
Useless against su85?
Does stug fire its real round immediately or twp is counted as 1 shot to be reloaded?
Frankly i rather swap twp for capture point, lol at least make use of stug speed and iirc grant extra sight?

It's a turret lock and weapon disable. +100% pen. -80dmg.

KV-1
The KV-1 has received some changes to make it better suited as a defensive tank at later levels of veterancy and allow it to threaten exposed infantry that would try to bypass it.

- Added Hulldown mode for veterancy 1
- Hulldown grants -15% reload time, and -20% received damage
- Increased performance on the hull and coaxial machine guns to match those of the T-34/76

The -20% received damage is far too excessive. Seen tightrope's video? It took 5 penetrating panther shots at medium range to bring it down to 1/3 health lol. Can this be changed to -10%?

It's self cast Hulldown with inferior values. OH Hulldown is 25%. Also, instead of range it gets RoF.

KV1 already needs 7 shots to get killed (800HP, 160*0.8 = 6.25). When hulldowned it needs 8 shots to get killed. (160*0.8*0.8 = 7.8125) Unless something is weird, dmg modifiers should be multiplicative, not additive.

Next person to derail this thread about SOVIETS in the SEPTEMBER PATCH, not the current patch, gets banned.

I don't want to read 10+ pages of TWP, maxim deathloop and playercard callouts, and I suspect neither does the balance team.

KV1 already needs 7 shots to get killed (800HP, 160*0.8 = 6.25). When hulldowned it needs 8 shots to get killed. (160*0.8*0.8 = 7.8125) Unless something is weird, dmg modifiers should be multiplicative, not additive.

Seems to me the math is right, it is only one hit difference. -20% seems to be very much at first glance, but if it comes down to one hit, it shouldn't be less, otherwise it wouldn't make sense at all.


OMG that video of the Panther fighting the hulled down KV-1. I really appreciate the work tightrobe does for the community but fighting a hulled down (immobile) 40 range tank with a mobile 50 range tank at medium range? Who on earth does that? Its like comparing an allied TD with Panther at medium range and lamenting afterwards that TDs are too weak. We all know they are not too weak.

Fight a hulled down tank KV-1 at max range with Panther, PAK40, PAK43, StuG, JPIV... (and so on) or with artillery. It can't move. It can't even kite anymore, so shreks will do damage too.

to return on topic, maxim still needs a buff to suppression so squad can't walk in to it, nerf the set up by another 0,5 1 second to avoid being spammed and a moved

penal are still a better alternative to cons in almost every way, they need to be fixed, reduce base accuracy and move it to vet 2 or 3

IS 2 tend to over shoot a lot, check the scatter angle

kv1 vet 1 might be too strong try 0.85 reduced damage instead of 0.8 still same number of tank shoots but mixing in sherck and faust will be usefull

I think its sensible to decrease the concussive stun trap plant time to 10 seconds considering its not a crazy wipe ability.

KV-1
The KV-1 has received some changes to make it better suited as a defensive tank at later levels of veterancy and allow it to threaten exposed infantry that would try to bypass it.

- Added Hulldown mode for veterancy 1
- Hulldown grants -15% reload time, and -20% received damage
- Increased performance on the hull and coaxial machine guns to match those of the T-34/76

The -20% received damage is far too excessive. Seen tightrope's video? It took 5 penetrating panther shots at medium range to bring it down to 1/3 health lol. Can this be changed to -10%?

KV1 in hulldown mode is still less durable than a Churchill, and that thing can even move. And since the KV1 has only 40 range, all AT guns and most tanks simply outrange it. From my tests, the KV1 cannot stick on this mode for too long if it gets engaged by good anti tank units since it doesnt increase the armor protection.... usually you dont wanna stick immobile at 1 spot until you have only 10% health left. And nobody would just brainlessly charge a single tank into mid range and frontal armor of a hulldown KV1 like in Tightrope's demonstration ofc


Considering how often we see axis hulldown being used, I am not too worried about the ability being crazy strong and becoming very popular. It could become slightly annoying in combination with AT guns or tank destroyers maybe, but not to a point where its insane I think.

Overall Conscript builds get too many buffs in this patch imo.
7man upgrade might be - after the JLI G34 - the most cost efficient upgrade and make them insanly strong, locked behind t3 with both molo and at nade upgrade, which you usually get anyways. Getting a t70 and 7man cons at roughly the same time is a very huge powerspike and can snowball too easy.

Not only this but t2 gets cheaper which allows even faster t3 and t70/7man rush. When you want to promote easier back teching make a discount on t2 when t1 or maybe t3 is build. In the current state it just speeds up the t70 rush, nothing else.

On top of that, maxim gets a buff. Well deserved i think, but these are !3! buffs for a already strong and common conscript build. Its simply too much imo

Even at t3 7 man conscripts still come way after LMG42s STGs BARs and BRENs... i really dont see how 7 man conscripts at T3 is anymore powerful than LMGs at BP1 or STGs at the first HQ truck


And note that the general concensus of conscripts is that they are a joke till they recieve the upgrade...

concensus of who? 4v4 main players maybe. 7man cons upgrade changes how the unit works, 30% less weapon cooldown and reinforcement cost reduction. -> more dps, more durability, alot more trading efficiency
Weapon upgrades only up the dps.
My problem is the huge powerspike soviets get at t3... tripple buff for this is too much, cant say this enough

In the current state it just speeds up the t70 rush, nothing else.

Don't see this. I see T1>T3>backtech T2 with penal build a lot more often than T2>T3>backtech T1. Since T1 always was at 10 fuel I don't see the T70 coming faster. It just doesn't matter now if you build T1 or T2 first, timing is the same. Yes you can build T1+T2>T3, then T70 would come at 5 fuel faster then it would atm, but I do think a fast T70 is better first so it always was more viable to backtech T1 or T2 after T3.

cons - t2 - t3 - t70 = 10 fuel cheaper. Did you even read what i wrote?

Why would you back tech t1 when you already have t2 and t3 up? for a 10 min m3? you dont see it cause it doesnt make sense. t2 back tech with penals makes sense for the at guns and mgs.

All im asking for is to not tripple buff con builds, they are strong enough - especially considering the okw nerfs

concensus of who? 4v4 main players maybe. 7man cons upgrade changes how the unit works, 30% less weapon cooldown and reinforcement cost reduction. -> more dps, more durability, alot more trading efficiency
Weapon upgrades only up the dps.
My problem is the huge powerspike soviets get at t3... tripple buff for this is too much, cant say this enough

https://www.coh2.org/topic/94292/what-do-people-think-of-conscripts-after-the-patch

do note that other factions experience power spikes aswell... to varying degrees of course... but note that the spike may seem to be smaller at first impression.... however this is due to the more spread out nature of their upgrades...

take ost for example... if i were to move the LMG42 to BP2 + ost T3 they recieve an equally huge... arguably larger powerspike than say 7 man cons and a T-70... but this powerspike doesnt seem apparent since ost gets LMG42s at a separate timing to the panzer 4... less of a spike more of a stairstep... and yet achieving the same "specific power" for both sides

aka... does it make the specific power of ost at that specific moment weaker than that of sov? i dont think so... a P4 + LMG42s are prolly gonna be better than a T-70 with 7 man cons... and though the spike itself is higher for the T-70 + 7 man cons timing... the current model of LMG grens + P4 achieves overall higher levels of power albeit more gradually and less... "spikey"... than a T-70 + 7 man cons timing



of course penals break all of these dynamics... but i most certainly loathe the penal + guards2win meta