Pak Howitzer needs adjustment

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:07 PMDoomlord52

I'm gone for 4 days and there's another 5 pages... neat. Not going go through and read it all, though.

Why don't we just make the PAK a 100% clone (cost, squad size, stats, etc.) of the LeiG? Most people seem to think that the LeiG is in a balanced (or possibly slightly under powered) state, so that seems like the easiest solution. Design wise, they're already basically identical: Long range, indirect fire, can't retreat, requires non-optimal tech choices to unlocks... Really, the only difference is that the LeiG gets smoke, but that's because OKW has no non-doc smoke units.





Except that the OKW variant, the LeiG, is objectively weaker, and no one ever seems to complain about it.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 22:21 PMMazianni

But to say the leig18 is more fragile is entirely inaccurate.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:42 PMSelvy289

The Leig is more just like a mortor than anything. Cloning the pack to be like the Leig would just make it a late mortor which usf already have access to at the start.

Edit: so I think it should be more of a howitzer than a mortor.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:43 PMCODGUY

Because the LeiG got buffed through the roof a few patches back and the only ones that ever cry for nerfs lately are Wehrboo Axis fanboys.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:49 PMinsaneHoshi

No it isnt. Tell me, how much damage does it take to de crew a Pack? You may ignoranly say 240 damage as 3 x 80 = 240. This is incorrect. It haveing 5 models means that it has 5 models to spread out its damage opposed to the 4 of an LEIG. This means, in theory a Pack can take 378 damage before decrew whereas a 4 model team can take 319. While this of course assumes a perfect distribution of damage, 5 models can spread out than 4.

While you may agure the RA counters this, you are now incorrect in saying that "leig18 is more fragile is entirely inaccurate"

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:49 PMinsaneHoshi

No it isnt. Tell me, how much damage does it take to de crew a Pack? You may ignoranly say 240 damage as 3 x 80 = 240. This is incorrect. It haveing 5 models means that it has 5 models to spread out its damage opposed to the 4 of an LEIG. This means, in theory a Pack can take 378 damage before decrew whereas a 4 model team can take 319. While this of course assumes a perfect distribution of damage, 5 models can spread out than 4.

While you may agure the RA counters this, you are now incorrect in saying that "leig18 is more fragile is entirely inaccurate"

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:53 PMDoomlord52

Except it would still have more barrage range and heat shells.




So I went through all the patches in the last 3 years, and these are all the changes (the first change being when they re-designed the unit). Nerfs are in bold.

Show Spoiler

Not exactly buffed through the rough, imo.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:53 PMDoomlord52

Except it would still have more barrage range and heat shells.




So I went through all the patches in the last 3 years, and these are all the changes (the first change being when they re-designed the unit). Nerfs are in bold.

Show Spoiler

Not exactly buffed through the rough, imo.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 02:27 AMthedarkarmadillo

you misunderstand. there ARE buffs, and since its an axis unit to codguy that is buffed through the roof. doesnt matter that its barage was neutered and its vet gutted, its cheaper too so its buffed beyond belief

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:07 PMDoomlord52

I'm gone for 4 days and there's another 5 pages... neat. Not going go through and read it all, though.

Why don't we just make the PAK a 100% clone (cost, squad size, stats, etc.) of the LeiG? Most people seem to think that the LeiG is in a balanced (or possibly slightly under powered) state, so that seems like the easiest solution. Design wise, they're already basically identical: Long range, indirect fire, can't retreat, requires non-optimal tech choices to unlocks... Really, the only difference is that the LeiG gets smoke, but that's because OKW has no non-doc smoke units.





Except that the OKW variant, the LeiG, is objectively weaker, and no one ever seems to complain about it.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 12:14 PMDangerous-Cloth

Your reasoning makes no sense.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMLoopDloop

Kappa.

Show Spoiler

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 00:13 AMSkysTheLimit

You are ignoring/forgetting that the pak Howy decrews when the 3rd man dies, unlike leig and all other mortars which de-crew when the 2nd man dies

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 15:31 PMDangerous-Cloth

So was I Kappa

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:02 PMinsaneHoshi

But they both require 3 men to decrew, but the Pack Howy has 5 men to soak damage whereas others have 4, which is a slight advantage.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 23:53 PMDoomlord52

Not exactly buffed through the rough, imo.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 01:16 AMCODGUY

The cost, pop, and scatter reduction are MAJOR buffs to that thing and they outwight any of those nerfs. It's basically made Brit emplacements useless.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:04 PMLoopDloop

Except for the fact that 3 of them are clustered right around the gun and one direct hit will decrew the pack howie.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:18 PMpvtgooner

as an average to below average player I think the pak howie is the ultimate noob litmus test. if the axis player is getting shredded by pak howie all game long, hes a noob. a good player knows how to deal with it quickly and effectively. you NEVER see high level players getting murdered by pak howies because theyre easy to counter.

i think its just the ultimate pub stomping unit. protip to all the axis sadfaces in this thread; literally drive your fucking p4 next to it and shoot it. congrats, its decrewed.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:18 PMpvtgooner

as an average to below average player I think the pak howie is the ultimate noob litmus test. if the axis player is getting shredded by pak howie all game long, hes a noob. a good player knows how to deal with it quickly and effectively. you NEVER see high level players getting murdered by pak howies because theyre easy to counter.

i think its just the ultimate pub stomping unit. protip to all the axis sadfaces in this thread; literally drive your fucking p4 next to it and shoot it. congrats, its decrewed.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:48 PMCODGUY

Pretty much this. The only time the Pack Howitzer is usually effective is with it's autofire which depends on the Axis player being an idiot and clustering his units never moving them. Even then there is a lot of luck and RNG involved. It's hilarious to see people complaining about this unit. Look at this whole section of the forum. Its all Axis cry babies wanting to nerf some USF or UKF unit.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 18:04 PMDoomlord52

OST is basically designed around team weapons and static infantry, though:

MG42 - Core unit, Needs to be stationary to fire