Help: dealing with Assault Grens 2v2

First of all, i considered myself somehow skilled but far from being too good http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198076231535)

Lately i have been quite against the ropes while facing Player1 "Normal" T1 + P2 "AssG" to fast T2.

Consider this before: you don´t know what commander your opponent will choose so opening with T1/T2 from the beggining may narrow your options heavily. But if opening with either Tier is the "best" approach i should give it a chance.

I may answer myself this but i want other opinions. PLUS, considering the maps would be great (not the same playing Karkov to Moscow). I dont want expect a "you win by doing this" but "this should be your aproach while facing them".

**Opening up with either T1/2 will give early map control to the opponent mostly.

1- Going T2 maxim spam.
2- Going T1 with Penals/Sniper/Clown car. Option 2 n 3 i found them really not reliable due to sniper not being able to do enough damage to retreat them (5man squad pushing forwards as "Pgens") n Clown car has a really low window gap to be useful.

**You start with a common 2 conscripts n you see what the opponent has.

3- Retreat engineer n proceed to options 1/2.
4- Proceed to keep playing as if it was any other doctrine. 1-2 more conscripts, molotov > T1/T2 or doctrinal units. Problem with this is 2 AssG (640mp) > 3 Cons (720mp) + Invesment of molotov.

PD: yep i know i should probably use when possible houses.
PD2: since i dont have the commander i can´t "test" what i found complicate of using them.

keep you conscripts together, it hurts your capping, but you can have one unit cover the other, so if the assgrens charge one of the squads you can pull it off to shoot at the assgrens while your other cons run around in circles or whatever

penal battalions can be useful, but don't count on any squadwipes with that 5 man squad, they get away too easy and spread out too much

i hope the dev's consider looking into ways to reduce spam strategies in almost every way. RIght now they destroy the game because they can always be very powerful. Yes there are always great counters to spam strats but they are always the same and very mundane to carry out. Never the less the best strategies to fight ass grens is the following from my experience.

get 3 conscripts - always try to keep 2 on the field close to each other. dont get molotovs when you see ass grens
build t1 - for snipers and clown car if low fuel
dont build t2 - maxims get ass grened to quick for me
build t3 - get t70 as soon as possible fuel wise

obviously it depends on what the opponent does next really but t70 seems very viable for me if i can hold a fuel early. t34's seen good if working against inf with engis to back up. any armour on the field ram it if you can and pump out more t34's (they work well in pairs if you can keep them repaired and safe)

doctrine wise you need real late game power. I tend to go kv8 for anti inf and is2 anti tank.

Actually, B2 for maxims can actually be very effective, keep them behind and nearby conscripts, using the quick setup and teardown times to suppress AGrens from a distance. With AGrens being so short range, they will always charge straight at conscripts, so you can rely on them moving towards certain areas and setup your Maxim appropriately.

People using AGrens will also try to tech early into tanks or half-tracks, so having zis-3s on hand to counter that is nice.

A scout car will turn them back. They don't have Faust right? Your scout car should be free to sit and pick them off.

Maxim spam works but you need make the game end fast. those guys go for Agren usually don't even tech T3, T4. they just use agren + AT + Stug 3E to hold a fuel point like mad then call in the tigers. which is annoying to fight it.

keep you conscripts together, it hurts your capping, but you can have one unit cover the other, so if the assgrens charge one of the squads you can pull it off to shoot at the assgrens while your other cons run around in circles or whatever

So a 3-4 CON (720-860MP) to fight a 2-3 AssG (640-960MP). I think im still losing on a 3Cons vs 2 Ass since i mostly have to fight in cover (no molotov) and he can charge n use the grenades.

A scout car will turn them back. They don't have Faust right? Your scout car should be free to sit and pick them off.

Remember, 2v2.

As i said, the window of usefulness is kinda really low unless i open directly to T1.

get 3 conscripts - always try to keep 2 on the field close to each other. dont get molotovs when you see ass grens
build t1 - for snipers and clown car if low fuel
dont build t2 - maxims get ass grened to quick for me
build t3 - get t70 as soon as possible fuel wise

obviously it depends on what the opponent does next really but t70 seems very viable for me if i can hold a fuel early. t34's seen good if working against inf with engis to back up. any armour on the field ram it if you can and pump out more t34's (they work well in pairs if you can keep them repaired and safe)

doctrine wise you need real late game power. I tend to go kv8 for anti inf and is2 anti tank.

I feel like you are talking as a 1v1 scenario. If i go for a T1-T3 god protects me if i dont do enough damage to delay his P4/Flak since im going to lack any AT besides nades. Unless i do a backtech to T2 for Zis.

You could say i should rely on my partner for the AT but it adds a layer of complexity (im basically pure AI n he should be heavy AT) which ask for a heavier coordination rather than if they went with any other commander.


For people who has the commander: does it really work a 2 AssG to AC since it´s almost the same cost as a 3/4 pio opening to T2?

Got raped by this yesterday on Road to Kharkov (north). 2v2, both opponents went Agrens straight of the bat. Built 4 of them each I think. Since it was almost impossible to get a squadwipe it was hard to push them back and also hard to hold cutoff and fuel. The big issue was the sheer force of them. When they got 3 squads up (Supported by HT) and pushed each side it was really hard to get something useful done. Since the map was narrow, there wasnt really any other place to go to avoid fighting them and harass. Now it was the first time we played against this and we were not prepared.

So Im also interested in what can counter this? One player goes penals with flamers and the other one maxims, work on one side? They played very fluid and moved their Agrens all the time so using something like Heavy Mortars to try to protect points or hit advances dont seem like something to rely on. Maxims seem risky if they move about that much, even if the deploytime is short.

Big respect for designating the thread as 2v2.

Conscripts with PPsh's seem to beat them,the only problem is that you have to hold out until 2 CP's....or you can try Shock Troops,they come at 1 CP and obviously a AT gun for the FlameHT,all the players with pay2win commander goes AssaultGrens or Ostruppen spam and FlameHT

Got raped by this yesterday on Road to Kharkov (north). 2v2, both opponents went Agrens straight of the bat. Built 4 of them each I think. Since it was almost impossible to get a squadwipe it was hard to push them back and also hard to hold cutoff and fuel. The big issue was the sheer force of them. When they got 3 squads up (Supported by HT) and pushed each side it was really hard to get something useful done. Since the map was narrow, there wasnt really any other place to go to avoid fighting them and harass. Now it was the first time we played against this and we were not prepared.

So Im also interested in what can counter this? One player goes penals with flamers and the other one maxims, work on one side? They played very fluid and moved their Agrens all the time so using something like Heavy Mortars to try to protect points or hit advances dont seem like something to rely on. Maxims seem risky if they move about that much, even if the deploytime is short.

Yeah, we decided to veto road to kharkov as soviets for now
It is also an amazing map for both pak 43 and turreted tanks (Which the germans have plenty of)

Yeah, we decided to veto road to kharkov as soviets for now
It is also an amazing map for both pak 43 and turreted tanks (Which the germans have plenty of)

I think this is so sad. I really enjoyed slugging out on this map both as soviet and ostheer, but this really just shut down our game. Was thinking about vetoing it, but I think its sad to veto a map just because some units synergy with it to well (a unit that everyone doesnt have). Its a really nice map (perhaps a tad small for 2v2, but then again, the games get so intense on that map its crazy). Was discussing the veto problem with my 2v2 pal yesteday as well. If everybody boycots it, it ends up not getting played, and I really dont think the map is as much of the problem as the units are. Resulting in that the problem wont be adressed in the right way. *sigh*. Will keep an eye on this thread, and hope there will be slight changes from relic to tone this problem down.

Got raped by this yesterday on Road to Kharkov (north). 2v2, both opponents went Agrens straight of the bat. Built 4 of them each I think. Since it was almost impossible to get a squadwipe it was hard to push them back and also hard to hold cutoff and fuel. The big issue was the sheer force of them. When they got 3 squads up (Supported by HT) and pushed each side it was really hard to get something useful done. Since the map was narrow, there wasnt really any other place to go to avoid fighting them and harass. Now it was the first time we played against this and we were not prepared.

So Im also interested in what can counter this? One player goes penals with flamers and the other one maxims, work on one side? They played very fluid and moved their Agrens all the time so using something like Heavy Mortars to try to protect points or hit advances dont seem like something to rely on. Maxims seem risky if they move about that much, even if the deploytime is short.

I had this happen to me on the same map with a teammate. I went four conscripts + molotov and he went for quick T2 + Maxim spam. Shut down the assault grenadiers very quickly (can also shut down the inevitable panzergrenadier rush if the maxims are properly overlapped). Then I went for T1 for sniper support while he rushed to T3 and got an early T-34 (you can swap this for T-70s, I would assume it'd be even better).

You have to take advantage of the fact that they don't have rifle nades nor fausts and that their assault nades suck and are extremely expensive. Therefore, Maxims are your best friend. Especially garrisoned in buildings. Also, they cost a lot of manpower to call in so they should always have less squads than you do during the game.

One player builds 2 cons, if assgrens show up then he retreats his engie and gets a sniper car while cons are camping in buildings and keep assgrens occupied then adds couple of guard squads with dp-28 and penals, then t34 or su85(I prefer t34 because it can run over infantry lol especially those annoying assgrens and pgrens). You can also get m5 and put 2 snipers inside lol. Other player goes 3-4 cons then t2, maxims and shocks, adds 120mm and couple at guns and then some armor. Me and my mate usually use this same strat every game

Got raped by this yesterday on Road to Kharkov (north). 2v2, both opponents went Agrens straight of the bat. Built 4 of them each I think. Since it was almost impossible to get a squadwipe it was hard to push them back and also hard to hold cutoff and fuel. The big issue was the sheer force of them. When they got 3 squads up (Supported by HT) and pushed each side it was really hard to get something useful done. Since the map was narrow, there wasnt really any other place to go to avoid fighting them and harass. Now it was the first time we played against this and we were not prepared.

So Im also interested in what can counter this? One player goes penals with flamers and the other one maxims, work on one side? They played very fluid and moved their Agrens all the time so using something like Heavy Mortars to try to protect points or hit advances dont seem like something to rely on. Maxims seem risky if they move about that much, even if the deploytime is short.

Faced double assgrens on Kharkov aswell yesterday, we played south. I usually don't spam maxims, but on Kharkov one player has to do that if you spot assgren doctrine on the opponent I think. Got 4 maxims, 2 at guns, my mate got 4 scripts with mollies and at nades, then Shocktroops.

We repelled the first attacks in our cutoff, which is very obvious move by assgren players and then pushed aggressively to theirs occupying the critical houses with maxims. Naturally flamerht and pgrens appeared but we managed to hold them off. I literally spammed mines everywhere, spending every bit of my munis on mines because they really rock on Kharkov.

I proceeded to tech to tier4, feeling comfortable with our fuel situation, the amount of stopgap antitank we had and map littered with mines I decided to get katyushas. Panzer- and assgren blobs were decimated and when both enemy players finally teched to Panthers we had sufficient amount of SU85s to combat them.