Cavalry upgrade for Rifleman instead of stand alone unit

I find the Cavalry Rifleman in a difficult position in current US build order.

They come at 1 CP so by that time you are already fielding lots of Rifleman and maybe an officer which both can hold their own at CQC against other factions making them a bad investment.

One could argue that moving them to 0cp would make them OP in conjunction with the WC51. This sounds like a fair concern to me.

So I propose this solution similar to the British assault section upgrade. Make it a upgrade for rifleman called the cavalry upgrade costing 60 munitions. With the Thompson being a separate upgrade afterwards for a small price to prevent early game dominance

What do you guys think about this idea?

I don't really think it's neccessary. CP1 isn't really that late, and 60 munitions is a lot for sacrificing all long-range DPS. Plus, Cavalry is a whole nother branch of the army, so it'd feel a little wierd.

Do it similar to Infantry Section + SMG, yea
Bonus: No bulletin for Cavalry Rifleman. This way, they could
benefit from the rifleman bulletins.
- I love the idea! DO IT!

I love cav rifles the way they are. Most noobs don't realize I'm about to nuke their vehicle with a satchel. I wish they weren't so squishy and maybe got more than 2 thompsons but I guess you can't have it all.

I don't really think it's neccessary. CP1 isn't really that late, and 60 munitions is a lot for sacrificing all long-range DPS. Plus, Cavalry is a whole nother branch of the army, so it'd feel a little wierd.

Cavalry is in fact not a separate branch of the US army, nor was it at that time. There were Cavalry units, but they were part of the main Army Ground Forces branch of the Army at that time.

Let's not powercreep riflemen even more; they're already amazing at medium range with double bars, and pretty solid at long with M1919s. They don't need to be amazing at close range with Thompsons as well.

If people want to be able to base their build around cavs, let's just move them to 0-points, but nerf them as well. Then give them an upgrade to bring them back to their current stats, similar to the AGren veteran squad leader.

So I propose this solution similar to the British assault section upgrade. Make it a upgrade for rifleman called the cavalry upgrade costing 60 munitions. With the Thompson being a separate upgrade afterwards for a small price to prevent early game dominance.

I like the idea of it being an upgrade for regular Riflemen, but it would need a few tweaks to make it work.

Double upgrading is odd and overly complicated. So if Cavalry Riflemen is an upgrade from regular Riflemen, then the Thompsons either need to come with that upgrade or not at all. I would do a slightly adjusted upgrade and call it “Mechanized Infantry Package/Training” or “Assault Package/Training” or something similar. In the adjusted upgrade I would give the squad a mix of Thompsons and M1 Garands or M1 Carbines, so that it reflects the Riflemen picking up Thompsons and Carbines from vehicle crews and maybe keeping some of their Garands. The upgrade would also unlock the satchel charge and covering fire ability.

Per the TO&E, US infantry were issued very few Thompsons (only 6 per company) while almost every vehicle driver was issued a submachine gun, usually a Thompson, while others got M1 Carbines. It was thought that the SMGs would be more compact and easy to “spray and pray” with in case of an ambush and the driver needed to break contact. In the hands of a well trained Rifleman, an M1 Garand is better at almost every range except extremely close. Historically this is why very few GIs actually preferred Thompsons over their M1 rifles. But in the few cases they did get Thompsons for close quarters fighting, they usually took them from drivers who didn’t want them anyways.

Mostly I like your proposal, but double upgrading is not a good choice for any unit.

I like the idea of it being an upgrade for regular Riflemen, but it would need a few tweaks to make it work.

Double upgrading is odd and overly complicated. So if Cavalry Riflemen is an upgrade from regular Riflemen, then the Thompsons either need to come with that upgrade or not at all. I would do a slightly adjusted upgrade and call it “Mechanized Infantry Package/Training” or “Assault Package/Training” or something similar. In the adjusted upgrade I would give the squad a mix of Thompsons and M1 Garands or M1 Carbines, so that it reflects the Riflemen picking up Thompsons and Carbines from vehicle crews and maybe keeping some of their Garands. The upgrade would also unlock the satchel charge and covering fire ability.

Per the TO&E, US infantry were issued very few Thompsons (only 6 per company) while almost every vehicle driver was issued a submachine gun, usually a Thompson, while others got M1 Carbines. It was thought that the SMGs would be more compact and easy to “spray and pray” with in case of an ambush and the driver needed to break contact. In the hands of a well trained Rifleman, an M1 Garand is better at almost every range except extremely close. Historically this is why very few GIs actually preferred Thompsons over their M1 rifles. But in the few cases they did get Thompsons for close quarters fighting, they usually took them from drivers who didn’t want them anyways.

Mostly I like your proposal, but double upgrading is not a good choice for any unit.

Double upgrading add more complexity that is bad, fair enough.
I just played the Brits to check and the Assault Section comes with 2 M1 Thompsons and 2 Stens (3 with bolster).
So I would say make cavalry package a 0cp 75 muni (because unlike brits you don't need bolster) package that gives the squad 3 Grease guns and 2 M1 Thompson(that would give it the same dps as a bolsterd Assault Section. The package balance could balance be tweaked by cost and by whether or not they get access to grenades because they already have the at satchel.
I don't think this would make Riflemen OP as some people seem to be suggesting here. Rifles are by there semi automatic nature flexible and versatile. Getting a cavalry package would make them weak and venerable at mid to long range. Just like Assault Sections, assault grenadiers, Combat Engineers and MP40 Volks.

Thematically I like the idea of Cavalry Riflemen being an upgrade package for regular Riflemen. It suits the USF theme of Riflemen representing the sort of “average joe” that made up the ranks of regular GIs. In this regard Riflemen are already versatile by being able to get BARs, Bazookas, M1919A6s and grenades and AT rifle grenades, but start off with none of them. In this way it shows how the US Army in WWII trained its troops to be generalists who relied on equipment and flexibility to fight. This contrasts the German and Soviet style where Riflemen were supplemented by specialist who were highly trained and experienced in a specific task. The game reflects this well already with PanzerGrenadiers, Guards, Shock Troops and Jaegers all being specialists that back up your core of Grenadiers and Conscripts. Riflemen, on the other hand, get special equipment. The exception being Paratroopers, Rangers and Assault Engineers, but these were from specialized units and were far far fewer in number compared to regular Riflemen. (And in reality Rangers and Paratroopers were equipped the same as regular infantry for the most part, but got distinctive uniforms which makes them a good pick for cool units. )

This all summarizes why I agree that the Thompson/Grease Gun and satchel charge equipped Riflemen in Mechanized Company should be an upgrade for Riflemen and not a separate unit.