Suggestion: penals immune to suppression

Jinseul: The flamer is identical to CE flamer.

Um... So what is your point? You think T1 for soviets need an easier way to fight German support crews - specifically mg's?

T1 or T2 with conscripts has the tools necessary to deal with German T1 and T2.

If you actually think that conscripts and penals are going to be enough versus a german player with a halftrack with lmg grenadiers nearby that he keeps reinforcing then you are mistaken.

More often than not a zis-3 is a bare minimum unless you want to get steamrolled.

If you actually think that conscripts and penals are going to be enough versus a german player with a halftrack with lmg grenadiers nearby that he keeps reinforcing then you are mistaken.

Ofc its not, nor should it be. The Cons can however cripple the HT and significantly dmg it and the Cons and Penals can still cause significant attrition to the Grens (Especially from the Penals) which the Ost must reinforce, at cost.

Just decrease Penals cost to 320mp and remove that retarded flamer explosion crit and they would be fine.

The problem is though, that Penals cost pretty much exactly what they should, considering current cost equity.
Their DPS really is that strong. At current muni/mp conversion rates, they are exactly where they should be in relation to, specifically, LMG Grens. (Not G43 Grens though, which still carry the 2CP requirement, and its simply improbable, if not impossible, to get those 2CP before you buy the first Battle Phase which enablles LMG.)

I suggest an alternative solution, that addresses what some experienced players have cited as the actual core of the problem, which is timing.

Generally in CoH2, buildtime is directly, and at a universal rate, related to cost.

BUT, that makes Penals, due to other tiering concerns and buildtimes inherent in the asymmetric alignment of the factions, come out arguably too late.

I suggest an exception is made in the normal cost/build equation, for Penals, so that they come out earlier.

Ideally so that the first Penal stepping out of the building coincides with the first LMG upgrade in a standard match.
Maybe even earlier, to account for the fact the LMG uograde can be applied in the field, whereas Penals have to march out of the base.

In the current state of the game considering the build time and tech needed to get Penals, I'd say 320mp is fair price for the utility they provide.

I agree with you about the timing thing.

Ofc its not, nor should it be. The Cons can however cripple the HT and significantly dmg it and the Cons and Penals can still cause significant attrition to the Grens (Especially from the Penals) which the Ost must reinforce, at cost.

Yeah, in a perfect world where the HT player is dumb enough to let them get to it, sure.

In reality for us who actually play the game and avoid forum warrioring 24/7 the story is different, good players have found the U button if you know what I mean.

If you go penals/conscripts early game and actually think you're going to succeed in flanking a good german players mg's and what not, you are mistaken. Terribly mistaken. Especially when the halftrack comes out and you realise you don't have any anti tank at all apart from the short range tank grenade which hardly is something you can rely on early - mid game.

Add to that the flaming capability the halftrack gets that literally eats conscripts in seconds.

Sure, the tank grenade does some damage but you'd need 2 grenades, possibly three if you get unlucky with main gun damaged or what not.

Post ignored due to ad hominem.

Also, crying about not being able to beat a unit with a Muni upgrade, that is being actively reinforced, at cost, onfield by a vehicle that is purchased for fuel, is pretty funny.

Post ignored due to ad hominem.

Please do state where I attacked you personally in my previous post.

Referring to an unnamed unskilled player as dumb is hardly ad hominem.

I think making them immune to a core game mechanic is a bad way to go.

With the LMG42 long range DPS decreased (normalized to the level of other weapons), I think the way to go for now should be a decrease in their build time. This means Penals can finally fulfill their long range DPS role, which they can keep up for a long time from cover and pretty cheaply when Conscripts merge into them.
One main reason for their lacking performance (being beaten at long range DPS) is now gone. This means that the meta might shift into a more penal-friendly state all by itself.
The decreased build time would still be good so the massive hole in field presence created by long build times of T1 + penals is decreased a bit and to incentivize people to try them out again.

Post ignored due to ad hominem.

Also, crying about not being able to beat a unit with a Muni upgrade, that is being actively reinforced, at cost, onfield by a vehicle that is purchased for fuel, is pretty funny.

Replying to my posts even though I made it perfectly clear to you that I didn't want to have anything more to do with a forum sociopath is also funny.

More ad hominem.

I think making them immune to a core game mechanic is a bad way to go.

With the LMG42 long range DPS decreased (normalized to the level of other weapons), I think the way to go for now should be a decrease in their build time. This means Penals can finally fulfill their long range DPS role, which they can keep up for a long time from cover and pretty cheaply when Conscripts merge into them.
One main reason for their lacking performance (being beaten at long range DPS) is now gone. This means that the meta might shift into a more penal-friendly state all by itself.
The decreased build time would still be good so the massive hole in field presence created by long build times of T1 + penals is decreased a bit and to incentivize people to try them out again.

I thought the lmg was made less effective at short range? Or are you just suggesting to decrease the damage of the lmg at range. SVTs on penals are just all in all weird, their tooltip and upgrades point to close range killers (flamers and satchel) yet they perform the best at range.

I think making them immune to a core game mechanic is a bad way to go.

With the LMG42 long range DPS decreased (normalized to the level of other weapons), I think the way to go for now should be a decrease in their build time. This means Penals can finally fulfill their long range DPS role, which they can keep up for a long time from cover and pretty cheaply when Conscripts merge into them.
One main reason for their lacking performance (being beaten at long range DPS) is now gone. This means that the meta might shift into a more penal-friendly state all by itself.
The decreased build time would still be good so the massive hole in field presence created by long build times of T1 + penals is decreased a bit and to incentivize people to try them out again.

Good analysis and good suggestions. I'd add that the introduction of tier0 Ostheer units really screwed penal builds in my opinion, mainly because of the build times.

More ad hominem.

Whatever. I will repeat myself, just for you.

Never reply to my posts again. I find them annoying and from what I've read you aren't exactly making friends with others here on the forum either. Quite the opposite.

I thought the lmg was made less effective at short range? Or are you just suggesting to decrease the damage of the lmg at range. SVTs on penals are just all in all weird, their tooltip and upgrades point to close range killers (flamers and satchel) yet they perform the best at range.

The LMG's long range DPS was decreased, its short range DPS is the same as before the patch.

Oh, seems like I did it the wrong way all the time then!
Thanks for pointing that out.
On that note would you agree with charging in with a molotov or try to win with a numerical advantage.

If you can get a molotov onto them, sure, go for it if there aren't too many enemies. It forces the LMG to move, making it lose a lot of damage and its cover. You can then use the damaged Conscripts' Merge ability to fill up the Penals so they are fit to go on.

Here is replay with Penals. They did very nice job. And i get them prety fast. In 4:57 min. At that minute german got 3 grenadiers and 1 Panzergren. My army at that minute was 4xcons+1xPenal.

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  OnCe_Ov3R

  Broliszibaila

  Penals go!

  by: MajorasLiepa map: Semoskiy Winter

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If you actually think that conscripts and penals are going to be enough versus a german player with a halftrack with lmg grenadiers nearby that he keeps reinforcing then you are mistaken.

More often than not a zis-3 is a bare minimum unless you want to get steamrolled.

2 or 3 script squads together throwing anti tank grenades will take care of it. If the German player somehow has many lmg squads and has a flame halftrack you messed up somewhere along the line with munition control.

If you charge the flame halftrack and it has to reverse away I guess the enemy squads won't be reinforcing anymore....

With a flame halftrack on the field you just have to keep your script squads in groups so you can nade it down. This should be suitable until you can get to another tech tier.