Sturmpio, "define its role" OKW infantry revamp

I think of all units in game, in terms of balancing and requiring revamps. Sturmpio requries it of all units.

For balancing in terms of early aggression. Maybe I believe it should begin wielding MP40s instead!

Since the STG44 profile in stronger in many more situations, it might help lessen the intensity.

Particularly against the USF which struggles at most to combat this early engagements.

STG44 for Sturmpio becomes available after 1 Base built!
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Now, the "AT package" option.

Unlike the Penals, they have a very defined "AT role" with the 2 PTRS and Satchel snare. It costs only 60 ammo.


Well, the Sturmpio which has also an AT option, comes only with 1 Pzshrek. It costs 70 ammo. It clearly is, for its cost and performance, lackluster and undefined AT role user. Since it fails in many scenarios to account as a supportive AT unit.


This idea was initally @SomeguyfromIdaho idea. His idea for Sturmpio to get Flamethrower instead! From this site https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/246040/please-remove-panzerschreck-from-sturmpioneers-and-give-them-nondoc-flamethrowers

So, I was thinking. Since Sturmpio's option is not clearly defined as it should be. Any only if it is undecided as to what adjustments they should receive in terms of their AT package.

I believe Flamethrower should be their option instead.


Now, here is why.

Sturmpionier's most notable weapon is the flamethrower, used to clear out enemy trenches and bunkers in close combat. It's true defined role!

It would make sense, as well for balancing to remove Volks access to "Flamenades". To reduce their accessibility to "cover denial" which should be Sturmpio's fulfilled role!


This is how I see the gameplay:

Sturmpio changes:

- Has access to Flamenade when not upgraded
- When upgraded to "Flamethrower", the flamenade is removed. The Flamethrower should be, less damage in comparison to others but has further range! In that way, its is not too overwhelming, just maybe! Accessible in the beginning. It is a dilemma.
- No AT package. Given to Obers instead!
- Or keep flamenade when upgraded, why. It will drain further their ammo resources and that it should be a choice. Diversity, I suppose and a dilemma!

Volks:

- Has access to instead Steilhandgranate (normal nade). No more flamenades for Volks.
- Vet 3, has access to stun nades which were access to Sturmpio. In this way, they would be able to scale mid-late game. Since they get outperformed. It should function as the Osteehr stun nade in one of the doctrines


Obersoldaten:

- Although they come late, they should be changed to arrive earlier. T0 but have no access to MG34 until after 2 bases built
- Have access to "AT package" costing 70 ammo with 1 Pzshreks. Shoots every 4-5 seconds instead, making it fast a AT handheld user. Can not pick up any other weapon. Limited to the weapon once upgraded! AT package should be available after 1 base built.
- Starting weapons revamped, so that they are not too weak. They have 2 K98 and 2 G43 instead!. It should not be the same as most infantry bolt-action users, make it unique since its an elite unit, be different a bit.


Why all this?

Is simply to limit the accessibility to Flamenades for Volks. Thus, it will be only limited to Sturmpio. Limiting also, the overall early aggression.

In this way, they have to rely on Sturmpio in order to push instead. At least be forced in some way to use it more often. Also due to the fact that they are not cost-efficient as Volks are. This will affect their early game strength for better late game. A trade, for balancing I believe. Also done for the sake of diversity!

Sturmpio, becomes the cover denial unit for OKW only. Not Volks anymore since they are cost-effective. It will be less often that you would encounter cover denial and strong aggression! In that way, it is not overwhelming!

To also trade their overall early effectiveness for later mid-late game! Thus they wont feel to overwhelming in the beginning nor kind of weak late game. To make them balanced also, as well in terms of gameplay! To make it also diverse!

All the more, to define its unique roles as they were historically, at the same time to balance it more. Except Obersoldaten historic role but its for the sake of balancing and diverse gameplay!


The Title was supposed to be "Sturmpio, "define its role, OKW infantry revamp"!!

Sturms are fine as they are, just remove panzershreks from them and make them easier to vet.

Volks can have the option between stg's or anti tank rifles (panzerbusche) would be better imo.

Having OKW rely one ONE unit for aggressiveness and pushes is stupid remember, OKW will only have 1 maybe 2 sturms on the field. early game OKW already struggle early vs garrisons even with flame nade, and these changes will make it worse.

If u want flame throwers, go the festurm doc

Sturms are fine as they are, just remove panzershreks from them and make them easier to vet.

Volks can have the option between stg's or anti tank rifles (panzerbusche) would be better imo.

Having OKW rely one ONE unit for aggressiveness and pushes is stupid remember, OKW will only have 1 maybe 2 sturms on the field. early game OKW already struggle early vs garrisons even with flame nade, and these changes will make it worse.

If u want flame throwers, go the festurm doc

It is not about wanting!

It is about fulfilling its defined and historic role.

I said as long as if its not improved, its "undefined AT role" for Sturmpio which is currently lackluster. Then the change might be neccessary!

If it is fixed, its 70 ammo AT package (if improvements are made), then I am fine.


All in all, I just saw this as opportunity to solve the issues which both the Allies and OKW suffer + what they experience.

I mean, they already do rely on one unit for aggression which is Volks only. This is a way to make Sturmpio more of the option also, rather than it being derelict mid and late game. Not Volks, Volks and Volks only as it always is. Also due to the fact they are viable only.

Should be a variety instead! This unit (all for different unique purposes) for this purpose and that. Not one only unit that can do everything. Also because there is little choice. That is lacking variety!

Uh, storm pios in green vs green cover up to medium range actually wins over any unit in the game.

So basically turn Sturmpioneers into Pioneers and Obers into Panzergrenadiers.

They need some kind of rework. Currently both being in a messed up spot. Just somewhere that they can be more viable and suited.

Now its just both not being at all viable due to their timing and overall effectiveness.

Obers coming too late is my definition of not being viable and Sturmpio not being designed for combat engagements at all later on (mid and late). Combat effectivness (meaning to be supportive and be pushy enough) in comparison to the rest of other engineers available mid to late game, Sturmpio is simply not that good an option.

Uh, storm pios in green vs green cover up to medium range actually wins over any unit in the game.

Cover doesn't work at close range and no, they don't. Actually the only close quarters squad that isn't an engineer unit that will lose to sturmpios is the partisans, which cost only 200 mp.

Sturmpios are literally panzergrenadiers but worse, and nobody thinks panzergenadiers are too strong. Their utility helps makes them a strong unit.


I'd like to see the AT package not lock out the minesweeper. Might actually see it in a 1v1 then.

Sturms are perfectly balanced at the moment. Not sure what the problem is. Their role in early game is being a close quarters combat unit. Then after vehicles arrive sweeping+ laying mines + repairing+ helping out in combat in between. They are not supposed to be a great combat unit in mid to late game, that wouldn´t make any sense. The only thing that should be looked at is their veterancy requirements. They are too high at the moment.

Yeah, vet requirements for most OKW units is quite an issue, amongst other issues. Sturmpio needs to be looked over.

AT package needs a kind of revamp and improvement since it is under-utilized due to its lacking effectiveness. Cost & Performance is batshit ridiculous.

Sturmpio, All in all as well as some units, are just not fulfilling enough.

Sure they play a role in early game but what about later on. Combat is not something that you can count this unit as a choice. That is kind of the problem. The utility it has available overall for OKW or its overall accessibility is pretty darn limited.

Volks as the only inf choice and Rak (when it is a very shit AT support weapon) as the only AT choice. Where does Sturmpio fit in in all of this?

You can get Panzerfüsiliere, Jägers at 1 CP, Kübelwagen, another Sturm. What is the problem here? How many infantry units can UKF build in the beginning of the game? How many can USF and Ostheer build non-doctrinally?

And for the love of god, can you stop saying Raketenwerfers are bad.

In the early game you are paying extra for the ability to repair which is useless w/o light vehicles

In the late game you are paying extra for combat power which gets completely outscaled


IDK but I wish they were split... Sturmpioneers with emergency repair only, with better combat vet and normal pioneers

In the early game you are paying extra for the ability to repair which is useless w/o light vehicles

In the late game you are paying extra for combat power which gets completely outscaled


IDK but I wish they were split... Sturmpioneers with emergency repair only, with better combat vet and normal pioneers

You should check their stats and scaling before commenting.
Knowing what you talk about actually helps in discussing the thing.

Stats is one thing but also how it is in game is another story.

2 things that may or may not be related.

Based on what I have seen and experienced. Sturmpio as well as other units for sure experience Vet issues. It is terribly slow because of its overall performance.

Requirements may be so (low or mid) but why its extremely high its cuz they suck ass at gaining what is required. Suck at fighting or whatever is required in order to enhance Vet. That is my point!

Since when are Sturmpioneers bad? I missed that patch.

Since when are Sturmpioneers bad? I missed that patch.

They aren’t bad... they’re just confused!

Jokes aside they are fine never improve anything if it’s fine

Stats is one thing but also how it is in game is another story.

Stats and how it is in game is the exact same thing.
Stats explain WHY things in game happen as they do.

If they don't for you, then you're not telling the whole story.

This thread is completely pointless. Nobody in their right mind leads assaults with flamethrower pioneers/combat engineers, but OP seems to think they’re some super useful late game unit because of it. Meanwhile he conveniently forgets that Sturmpioneers get a minesweeper upgrade that improves repair speeds, meaning they can provide great repairs near the frontline without absolutely having to invest in a 2nd engineer.

Again, this is an engineer unit, not a mainline combat unit. It’s also stock, so no comparisons to assault engineers, and can be very useful late in the game if kept away from blobs and in ambush positions.

Pointless to those who do not even get the point!

Sturmpio is just only a fucking repair dude. All it can do later on and what is there to repair.

Just lights for Mech only and Heavies.

Sturmpio is not designed well since it's specific role is not identified to its historic match. Which was clearing trenches and it is an aggressive unit. Even then, what is the point of being able to repair slightly faster when their vehicles arent any better except their mediums. Lights are just piontless since their support is not there!

It cant even be aggressive nor defensive. All it can do is fight close range. Medium range is simply terrible.

Besides that. It is a pointless class. Getting other engineers from other factions serves more purpose as they have better utility to provide as a means of better support. Sturmpio has nothing proper to offer than just repair.

They have actually all 2 choices, hell 3 even. But OKW Sturmpio is only 1 road only.


Hell, even SU engineer and WEHR engineer serves way better Infantry support when they have Flamethrower. For 200 manpower and less. 60 ammo

Hell, even UKF and USF engineer serves way better purpose for AT support when they have AT. For 200 manpower and less. 50 ammo + tech = lots more to offer overall

Hell even all the other factions can get more engineers since they are cheaper and have far better accessibility to utility overall making them far better.


What on earth is Sturmpio designed for for 300 manpower. Just as much as what a 220 manpower unit performs way better mid and late in other areas overall. Not repairs only but other factors.

UKF engineer does better than what Sturmpio has to offer even in combat. Even repairs for the cost is better. Even if you include tech, it is definitely better overall.

In AT, fortification, cover, snares and other things. Sturmpio has nothing to offer and for its price, it is simply shit in contrast. No utility or choice to offer except repairs only.

All Sturmpio can only do is repair and fight up close. What is the point of having Sturmpio if it cant participate any other role other than that. It is simply not a choice. What happened to diversity, choices or dilemmas?

70 ammo for 1 Pzshrek. That is completely shit. Absolute shit. What the hell is it designed for. Lacklustre.

There should be more reason to use it like most other engineers. Sturmpio is just a unit that has no particular purpose in game other than repairs. No choice of AT support or even infantry support. It just can not do either.

You can't buff sturmpios, they have too much utility, which makes them worth it under all circumstances!