How does scatter work (and some more stuff)

So I never undrrstood how scatter actually works.
I know that if a shot misses the direct hit, then scatter from the target is calculated. Small scatter values mean the shot will land closer to the actual target.
But what does the specific scatter value of '5 angular scatter' (or something like this) really mean?
I once read a suggestion that said that angular scatter would be scatger left/right to the target, while zhe other scatter value dictates how much further or shorter it will fly.
While this model looks good on paper, I don't think it's actually true, since some shots fly off wildly across the wjole map. So I assume at least one scatter value will influence the angle of the cannon from the perfect angle to the target. Is there anything known about this?

Also I was wondering if someone could tell me were I find the reference point in the tool application for both accuracy and penetration. So for which distances are the 'hard' values meant? And does pen and accuracy go to up to 1 at 0 distance or are they hard capped?

And one last thing to finish this post:
Could someone explain to me which factors (and also where they are in the tools app) contribute to infantry damage by small arms?


Any help om this would be great!

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics#latest

Also I was wondering if someone could tell me were I find the reference point in the tool application for both accuracy and penetration. So for which distances are the 'hard' values meant? And does pen and accuracy go to up to 1 at 0 distance or are they hard capped?

And one last thing to finish this post:
Could someone explain to me which factors (and also where they are in the tools app) contribute to infantry damage by small arms?


Any help om this would be great!

Accuracy and penetration are found under "weapon" in the mod tools attribute editor. You need to find the correct weapon, and usually the "mp" file which stands for multiplayer if I assume correct. For example if I wanted to find the panther 75mm cannon stats, I'd look under "weapons\west_german\ballistic_weapon\tank_gun\panther_kwk42_75mm.mp". Accuracy and penetration should be under there. Accuracy is multiplied by the target size of the intended target. Penetration is calculated as "pen/armor" = % chance to penetrate and deal X damage. Distances are measured by "close/mid/far" which can be found under "range". "angle_scatter" is deviation left and right of intended target while "distance_scatter_offset" is near and far scatter of the target. All these values have multipliers in the file as well so you need to look at that. Fog of war multipliers are in effect as well when FoW is there.

Infantry damage is calculated similarly, only without scatter I think. Some weapons like the BAR, have a chance to reroll their shots at units in the vicinity should they miss. You take the accuracy of the weapon and multiply it by the target size, which is relativley close to 1 before received accuracy modifiers are applied. Then you have weapon damage. All models ingame have 80HP except snipers which sit at 82 to avoid 1 shots by mortars. Certain units, specifically shock troopers, have armor which like tanks gives a chance to negate damage.

There's many more things to cover, but that's the basics of a few things and how they're calculated. I'm sure SneakEye or Vipper could give much more info than I.

Thank you both for your answers. However, I think I should word the questions I had more specifically.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics#latest

I do know the guide and the explanations there work well for bolt action rifles, but also for these it does not explain certain values such as the "time to aquire a new target" etc.
As far as I see it there is a delay if your soldier aquires a new target.
And for every shot there is
1. an aiming phase
2. (the shot itself, as far as I know it does not take time?)
3. post-firing-time

Then it goes back to #1 until the magazine is empty (also here: where do I find the magazine size-stat?). When the magazine is empty, the soldier has a reload time and then goes back to his standard shooting cycle. This is basically the intervall at which the chances to deal damage are calculated, which is made up by the "chance to hit" (target_size*accuracy*received_accuracy*special_modifiers) and the "chance to penetrate" (penetration/armor). So basically it's modelled like tank warfare with low pen and armor values. Which also means a Churchill should go down to Pioneer MP40s at some point.
All these times are modified by suppression status and sometimes distance.
On top of that, the guide does not explain units with automatic rifles that have a burst-firing-pattern. How does this work? I know there are burst-length modifiers when moving etc, but I do not know how many bullets (or better to say: how many chances to deal damage) are calculated for every burst, how many burst a model can do before reloading etc.

Accuracy and penetration are found under "weapon" in the mod tools attribute editor. You need to find the correct weapon, and usually the "mp" file which stands for multiplayer if I assume correct. For example if I wanted to find the panther 75mm cannon stats, I'd look under "weapons\west_german\ballistic_weapon\tank_gun\panther_kwk42_75mm.mp". Accuracy and penetration should be under there. Accuracy is multiplied by the target size of the intended target. Penetration is calculated as "pen/armor" = % chance to penetrate and deal X damage. Distances are measured by "close/mid/far" which can be found under "range". "angle_scatter" is deviation left and right of intended target while "distance_scatter_offset" is near and far scatter of the target. All these values have multipliers in the file as well so you need to look at that. Fog of war multipliers are in effect as well when FoW is there.

Infantry damage is calculated similarly, only without scatter I think. Some weapons like the BAR, have a chance to reroll their shots at units in the vicinity should they miss. You take the accuracy of the weapon and multiply it by the target size, which is relativley close to 1 before received accuracy modifiers are applied. Then you have weapon damage. All models ingame have 80HP except snipers which sit at 82 to avoid 1 shots by mortars. Certain units, specifically shock troopers, have armor which like tanks gives a chance to negate damage.

There's many more things to cover, but that's the basics of a few things and how they're calculated. I'm sure SneakEye or Vipper could give much more info than I.

Again I feel sorry since you took so much time to answer this question, but I should have phrased my question differently. Nonetheless thank you for your answer, as some points such as the bar reroll where things that I did not know yet. I can find the stats on penetration, armor etc. Not long ago I uploaded the most recent stat sheet and AT calculator for almost all vehicles with significant AT capability in the game.
What I do not know is: Where do I find the "reference distances" in the attribute editor? For example, standard accuracy values for medium tanks are 0,025/0,037/0,05. But at what distances? I assume far is maximum range, that is 40. But what are the reference points for mid and close? It makes a huge difference if the reference points are at 40/30/20 or 40/35/10, as this would be a very different weapon profile. And exactly these reference data points are yet hidden for me, as I have searched the attribute editor but have not found them. Also does the accuracy and pen go up if the enemy is closer than the "near-distance"? Or are these stats hard capped to their close values? I've seen tanks miss shots when the stuck their barrel right through their target, so I would assume they are hard capped at some point.

What I do not know is: Where do I find the "reference distances" in the attribute editor? For example, standard accuracy values for medium tanks are 0,025/0,037/0,05. But at what distances? I assume far is maximum range, that is 40. But what are the reference points for mid and close? It makes a huge difference if the reference points are at 40/30/20 or 40/35/10, as this would be a very different weapon profile. And exactly these reference data points are yet hidden for me, as I have searched the attribute editor but have not found them. Also does the accuracy and pen go up if the enemy is closer than the "near-distance"? Or are these stats hard capped to their close values? I've seen tanks miss shots when the stuck their barrel right through their target, so I would assume they are hard capped at some point.

No worries about misinterpretations, we're here to help.

Under the weapon profile find "range", open it and then open "distance". There you will see the reference distances for far/mid/close ranges. The hard capped distance is near I believe, although most near distances should be 0 except on a few weapon profiles. Most weapons follow a typically logical sense of ranges where mid is mid way between max and min distances. There are a few weapons who don't follow this sense, the firefly gun does not for example.

1. an aiming phase

That includes
wind up,fire aim

2. (the shot itself, as far as I know it does not take time?)

That includes
burst duration

3. post-firing-time

That includes
wind down, cooldown, fire aim, ready aim, reload duration

Then it goes back to #1 until the magazine is empty (also here: where do I find the magazine size-stat?).

It is "reload frequency" which tells you the number of burst it will fire before reloading.

If the weapon fire single shot it burst is one.
If it fire automatic it is burst duration*rate of fire.

Which also means a Churchill should go down to Pioneer MP40s at some point.

No low chances bellow 3% are not calculated small arm firing vs armor +30 cannot penetrate.

Range effects:
fire aim
burst duration
cooldown
ready aim
reload duration
accuracy
penetration

thanks very much to both of you!
Ehat a shame that penetration chances that low are not calculated, my bew AT strategy got wrecked before it began.

glad that I could help

I guess low chance check where removed to make reduce the calculation load, too bad it mess up your strategy.