The Panzer 4’s main gun is worsevs infantryagainst garrisons compared to al allied mediums because it only damages some of the enemy squad models (Damage all in hold: False, coh2.db)
Fixed that for you.
Ostwind's penetrations
23 Jun 2019, 09:19 AM
#161
Posts: 3260
Fixed that for you.
23 Jun 2019, 09:21 AM
#162
Posts: 1392
Sure, I moved the P4 to focus an unit-member. The little acc. dropp at that moment isn't an excuse for 8 sec. more needed for the same result, killing a squad.
People cry that Ostwind is OP, I say no. You guys say P4 is OP, I say no. At least, T34 is more OP than both of them.
But that is no excuse for NOT overwork normal T34/76. It should get more frontal armor (180 | also T34/85 should get 180) and the hull-MG should get nerf to normal level. Less AOE to prevent the permanent full-squat fu** it often makes to crews (give same as P4). Then increase the price by 10-15 fuel.
-> That would fix the frontal pen problem of Ostwind and 222, also T34 would become a little bit more effective... more or less. But the MG is OP, you can't say something different, it works like a small Tiger-Ace.
People cry that Ostwind is OP, I say no. You guys say P4 is OP, I say no. At least, T34 is more OP than both of them.
But that is no excuse for NOT overwork normal T34/76. It should get more frontal armor (180 | also T34/85 should get 180) and the hull-MG should get nerf to normal level. Less AOE to prevent the permanent full-squat fu** it often makes to crews (give same as P4). Then increase the price by 10-15 fuel.
-> That would fix the frontal pen problem of Ostwind and 222, also T34 would become a little bit more effective... more or less. But the MG is OP, you can't say something different, it works like a small Tiger-Ace.
23 Jun 2019, 09:52 AM
#163
Posts: 611
Ostwinds are not a huge problem on their own, although they have been buffed far more than was necessary.
The problems emerge if the ost player build 2 or 3 pgrenz and upgrades them with schrecks. Add in a couple of Mg42 and a couple of paks and all of a sudden its just cancer overload. Things become worse if a commander with sprint is chosen.
Another truly pathetic example of over buffing units without considering how people will abuse the change.
Every patch just brings more annoying shortsighted BS changes.
The problems emerge if the ost player build 2 or 3 pgrenz and upgrades them with schrecks. Add in a couple of Mg42 and a couple of paks and all of a sudden its just cancer overload. Things become worse if a commander with sprint is chosen.
Another truly pathetic example of over buffing units without considering how people will abuse the change.
Every patch just brings more annoying shortsighted BS changes.
23 Jun 2019, 11:30 AM
#164
Posts: 808
Ostwinds are not a huge problem on their own, although they have been buffed far more than was necessary.
The problems emerge if the ost player build 2 or 3 pgrenz and upgrades them with schrecks. Add in a couple of Mg42 and a couple of paks and all of a sudden its just cancer overload. Things become worse if a commander with sprint is chosen.
Another truly pathetic example of over buffing units without considering how people will abuse the change.
Every patch just brings more annoying shortsighted BS changes.
sounds like a good use of combines arms??? exactly the purpose of OST and thanks for showing the balance team has done a good job. If combines arms as you've described is not what ost supposed to do and is cancer, please explain how to use the faction?
23 Jun 2019, 12:03 PM
#165
Posts: 611
sounds like a good use of combines arms??? exactly the purpose of OST and thanks for showing the balance team has done a good job. If combines arms as you've described is not what ost supposed to do and is cancer, please explain how to use the faction?
Combined arms is not the issue and any attempt to make that argument is simplistic. The issue is that the ostwind and pgrenz were overbuffed and when used together are cheesy and braindead stupid. Numerous arguments have been made opposing unit power creep and the balance team dismiss those arguments on the basis they know better. Nothing is more frustrating than increased probability of squad wipesand that is exactly what this patch has done.
23 Jun 2019, 12:20 PM
#166
Posts: 1392
Combined arms is not the issue and any attempt to make that argument is simplistic. The issue is that the ostwind and pgrenz were overbuffed and when used together are cheesy and braindead stupid. Numerous arguments have been made opposing unit power creep and the balance team dismiss those arguments on the basis they know better. Nothing is more frustrating than increased probability of squad wipesand that is exactly what this patch has done.
You know what? PnzGr. only need to drop 2 men to lose any AI ability (beside the Geballte-Ladung), the Ostwind is the only unit to prevent Ostheer to get pushed now into their base by any kind of infantry.
Maybe try to build own units?
23 Jun 2019, 13:09 PM
#167
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
People cry that Ostwind is OP, I say no. You guys say P4 is OP, I say no. At least, T34 is more OP than both of them.
In which alternate reality is a T34/76 better than Ostwind and P4?
23 Jun 2019, 14:03 PM
#169
Posts: 783
Ostwinds are not a huge problem on their own, although they have been buffed far more than was necessary.
The problems emerge if the ost player build 2 or 3 pgrenz and upgrades them with schrecks. Add in a couple of Mg42 and a couple of paks and all of a sudden its just cancer overload. Things become worse if a commander with sprint is chosen.
Another truly pathetic example of over buffing units without considering how people will abuse the change.
Every patch just brings more annoying shortsighted BS changes.
I mean Ostwind was lackluster before the update. It was inefficient for its price and performance. Being 2/5 - 3/5 as good as a Centaur which was a practical joke!
Now it performs as it should. It has been buffed as necessarily as it should have been for its current role!
I mean, who wanted an AI focused unit (Ostwind) for around 300 manpower and 90 fuel which did worse than a T34 at the time (before this update with the improvements), which combats both infantry and vehicles better!
Now at least it does its job and role accordingly. Finally a viable option. Before that, it was simply lackluster/not worth it. It is fixed now, buffed I would not really say, just fixed according to its suited/specific role.
Before Ostwind was definitely nerfed and for quite a long time! It was not even a viable/proper option! It was simply crap!
If they are going to nerf Ostwind, I am going to really cry since I have been longing for improvements!
Not buffs, just improvements!
I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be for
ukf
usf
okw
soviets
ostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. 
This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
ukfusfokwsovietsostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
23 Jun 2019, 14:07 PM
#170
Posts: 9
Before Ostwind was definitely nerfed and for quite a long time! It was not even a viable/proper option!
ostwind was perfectly fine, it was just unfavoured.. not underpowered.. the pIV was simply the better, all rounder, option, the correct approach to balance was to offer a more defined role for the unit rather than just being marginally better than the pIV against infantry, ie buff its moving accuracy slightly because axis are apparently too brain dead to figure out how to use it effectively in it's previous state and at the same time nerf the pIV AI to give both units more defined roles, the balance team has stupidly done the exact opposite
now both units are ridiculous
your bias is showing, how can you compare the ostwind to the centaur now, the ostwind is much quicker and now more effective against tanks and just as good against AI and it's cheaper..
ridiculous axis fanbois....
23 Jun 2019, 14:17 PM
#171
Posts: 783
ostwind was perfectly fine, it was just unfavoured.. not underpowered.. the pIV was simply the better, all round, option
now both units are ridiculous
your bias is showing, how can you compare the ostwind to the centaur now, the ostwind is much quicker and now more effective against tanks and just as good against AI and it's cheaper.. ridiculous axis fanbois
It was clearly unfavoured due to fact it was underperforming and it was lackluster simply. Everyone knew that especially the pros. That is the clear reason why it was clearly unfavoured
That was evident, and that is why every picked clearly the PanzerIV over Ostwind.
Ostwind could not even combat infantry back then just as well as Centaur, PzIV, T34 for its price.
I am not a fanboy clearly. I enjoy playing both allies and axis. I never said to major changes or buffs or so forth. Only improvements on the gameplay according to both sides.
The fact its role was supposed to combat specifically against infantry. It could not even do that one job!
About the Centaur, it is still rather good and its counterpart is Ostwind. It should perform similarly or alike for their roles.
Before it was clearly outmatched, not even close to the way it performed.
One could argue that Ostwind was worse than Luchs before, because it was inconsistent.
For further replies, stay objective and to the trend. Please respect even what others have to say!
I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be forukfusfokwsovietsostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced.
This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
ukfusfokwsovietsostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
23 Jun 2019, 14:30 PM
#173
Posts: 682
you are absolutely an axis fanboi which pretends to be otherwise, you constantly talk about underpowered axis units on the official forums and get routinely destroyed by the ridiculousness of your suggestions and the inherent bias in them, you fool absolutely no one "balance_gamer"
You're absolutely right. If anything, the fuel cost of the ostwind should have gone up and the rof should have been decreased. The minimum range should have been expanded too. Far too many pros were using ostwinds and winning tournaments through mass usage. The amount of people using Ostheer in the last tournament was ridiculous.
/s
23 Jun 2019, 14:45 PM
#174
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
ostwind was perfectly fine, it was just unfavoured.. not underpowered.. the pIV was simply the better, all rounder, option, the correct approach to balance was to offer a more defined role for the unit rather than just being marginally better than the pIV against infantry, ie buff its moving accuracy slightly because axis are apparently too brain dead to figure out how to use it effectively in it's previous state and at the same time nerf the pIV AI to give both units more defined roles, the balance team has stupidly done the exact opposite
now both units are ridiculous
your bias is showing, how can you compare the ostwind to the centaur now, the ostwind is much quicker and now more effective against tanks and just as good against AI and it's cheaper..
ridiculous axis fanbois....
So you mean a more defined role at killing infantry, the Ostwind’s primary role in the tier?
23 Jun 2019, 14:53 PM
#175
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Invised a post. Keep it civil ad don't target other users
23 Jun 2019, 15:33 PM
#176
Posts: 1392
In which alternate reality is a T34/76 better than Ostwind and P4?
In same, where a P4 is cheaper and Ostwind has more pen than a T34.
23 Jun 2019, 15:40 PM
#177
Posts: 573
So you mean a more defined role at killing infantry, the Ostwind’s primary role in the tier?
More defined role of killing intarty = AA vehicle usurping role of dedicated AI vehicles such as Brummbar or Hetzer and doing it better cheaper and faster?
Using same logic I'd expect you to double T-34 ROF considering it's all around piece of crap?
Also I'm not seeing M5 AA recieving buff of similar caliber, nothing even remotely as powerful as giving it drastically reduced cooldown or huge increase in burst duration yet it's also dedicated AI vehicle that most certanly saw less use than Ostwind?
23 Jun 2019, 16:25 PM
#178
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
In same, where a P4 is cheaper and Ostwind has more pen than a T34.
I don't know where your reading that but even the OP didn't say anything that crazy. I don't agree that the ostwind is too strong but it could probably use a price increase. At most it's too strong for it's price
They buffed a great deal of different stats on the unit, that usually means it shouldn't be the same the price as before.
Just make it 100 fuel. It's very very strong now, seems plenty worth it
23 Jun 2019, 16:27 PM
#179
Posts: 1392
23 Jun 2019, 16:46 PM
#180
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
You seem not to understand satire.
Or your satire just sucks? And made your point less clear?
You made multiple serious posts on this page so idk why you couldnt just answer his question
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