Tier 1 Tier 2 IS2 strat

This is something I'm fucking around with now. I have no idea if it will work against a decent player yet, as I haven't really faced anyone competent with it.

So, having messed around with Tier 1 play for a bit, I've been finding the old-school T1-guards-T4 approach very strong but also very dependent on you playing consistently well. You need decent fuel control, because otherwise the SU-85 comes too late. You need decent munitions control, because guards and mark target are munitions hogs. You need to not lose a lot of manpower because everything you have is manpower intensive.

So, my premise is that there are a few problems with T1 play right now if you don't execute it perfectly (good players can, I can't):

1) the scout car will put you back substantially for your first vehicle. Rebuying it, or having both AT nades and Molotovs as well as one even more so. If I see two scout cars and conscript tech as Ostheer I feel really comfortable just going for a fast Ostwind.
2) losing a unit as a conscripts -> Tier 1, guards -> T4 build without PPSH can often leave you in a manpower and munitions hole of doom.
3) your snipers will spend a lot more time retreating than firing. They have no solid base to operate from without either high DPS units to discourage chasing or MGs to discourage chasing.

I kind of think if you sit yourself out of the T3/4 rush by just side-teching to Tier 2 after some tier 1 action, being a bit behind on fuel isn't the huge concern that it is with T1-T3 or T1-T4 strats. And you get both the bleed of tier 1 and the more solid base of tier 2. You don't have any big muni sinks so you can happily leave mines everywhere and, then, you get the IS-2, which is really fun to use, incredibly good against infantry and pretty good against P-IVs and similar vehicles.

Anyway, something a bit different to what I've been doing the last couple of patches. No idea if it can work in high level play and it's probably not THE most powerful build for Soviets to go for. However, it's fun to do if you want a different pace to the vehicle rushing builds Soviets go for at the moment and to try out more combinations of Soviet units (flare + precision strike, for instance), and gives you a lot of tools to deal with what you see from the Ostheer player. Give it a shot if you like. Mines are essential.

(edit: my build order right now is 3 conscripts, T1, M3 Flamer, AT nades, Sniper -> T2 then mines on all your flanks and appropriate counter-builds. Personally I like having a maxim and shocks but you've got everything in the Soviet infantry arsenal to choose from. You'll want a minimum of 2 ZiS guns when you've seen a Tier 3 unit. If your Zis guns aren't covered by mines to stop them getting effectively countered you have done it wrong.)

I was playing vs. AssGrens just now - went T1-T4 before I realized my fuel income was insufficient to maintain T4. Penals held a few key points (caches) while I built T2 - 2 AT guns made me enough of a safe zone my SU could safely clear bunkers. Tiger went on a wild charge and we both lost our tanks. Remaining infantry were cleared and cutoff sealed the win. My zIS and Maxims came out at juuust the right time to throw my opponent off. Rank ~700 German. I possessed very little map control throughout. But --- damn! zis+penal. owie. A win with ~20VP.

I used to do this a lot. Why not get T1 and T2? You have the fuel to spare as the IS2 is 5CP. Use the versatility to your advantage, just don't get the M3.

3x Conscripts -> T1 -> sniper -> Penal battalion -> T2 -> Maxim -> Maxim -> 2x ATG
Snipers, maxims, and ATGs work very nicely with one another. It's essentially enough to take anything head on. Conscript AT nades is a must.

Disadvantages:

One big issue I have doing this is a player who knows what you are doing just gets mortar half tracks. It messes everything up.

Also high level players who are very careful with their vehicles will do their best to avoid anti-tank guns and wait for you to mess up. It's difficult to force a resolution with defensive anti-tank. So until you get that IS2 out you are going to be reacting to your opponent.

Lastly, the main reason I stopped doing this is that you are always going to be playing a long game. Even if you are ahead, you are saving your resources for a 30+min investment. Many times that means I allow my opponent the opportunity to come back and win when I should have just gone T3 to end it.

It is a fun strategy to do though that much is true.

I used to do this a lot. Why not get T1 and T2? You have the fuel to spare as the IS2 is 5CP. Use the versatility to your advantage, just don't get the M3.

3x Conscripts -> T1 -> sniper -> Penal battalion -> T2 -> Maxim -> Maxim -> 2x ATG
Snipers, maxims, and ATGs work very nicely with one another. It's essentially enough to take anything head on. Conscript AT nades is a must.

Disadvantages:

One big issue I have doing this is a player who knows what you are doing just gets mortar half tracks. It messes everything up.

Also high level players who are very careful with their vehicles will do their best to avoid anti-tank guns and wait for you to mess up. It's difficult to force a resolution with defensive anti-tank. So until you get that IS2 out you are going to be reacting to your opponent.

Lastly, the main reason I stopped doing this is that you are always going to be playing a long game. Even if you are ahead, you are saving your resources for a 30+min investment. Many times that means I allow my opponent the opportunity to come back and win when I should have just gone T3 to end it.

It is a fun strategy to do though that much is true.

Mortar halftrack is the thing I was thinking would be a problem/not something you can punish with this. My alternative for it would've been to have Guard Motor coordination as a doctrine, at which point you can mess it up with a guard car and switch to T-34/85s, but then, they're pretty terrible at the moment so I dunno about that.

The rest of your points seem very likely; it's nice playing as Soviets with snipers and MGs though.

This seems like a fun strat. I've been finding tips for soviets for skipping T3 & T4. With Ostheer there seems to be various commanders where this is possible.

Any suggestions how to apply this strat on 2vs2? Basically what the mate should know? To rush to T4 and get SU-85 to support as soon as possible?

This seems like a fun strat. I've been finding tips for soviets for skipping T3 & T4. With Ostheer there seems to be various commanders where this is possible.

Any suggestions how to apply this strat on 2vs2? Basically what the mate should know? To rush to T4 and get SU-85 to support as soon as possible?

2v2 I haven't tried it. Could work, I guess. Probably tier 4 for the indirect fire and the SU-85 but then tier 3 for a halftrack would also help. Either one would require more cooperation than you just going T2-T3.

2v2 I haven't tried it. Could work, I guess. Probably tier 4 for the indirect fire and the SU-85 but then tier 3 for a halftrack would also help. Either one would require more cooperation than you just going T2-T3.

We tried it with my friend. It seemed to work alright. As mentioned below, it requires a bit time. I checked out of curiosity how I was able to get my IS2 out. My friend got his SU-85 at 18min marker and I got my IS2 at 22min. Well, he wasn't really rushing to that T4 but anyway. This strategy takes a bit more time but it's fun. Also there's a bit more micro because there are more of these special units.

One more thing which can delay deploying IS2 is getting the commander points (it's only 5 anyway) without any tanks. That may be a problem in some games but in ours, we faced a lot of infantry anyway.

i use this all the time. if you're impatient, you can go for a commander that has the t34/85. the armored assault commander is perfect for something like this.

This is great, exactly what I was looking for as I have been trying to use Soviet T1 for sniper and could not what to do mid/late game that does not depend on me having the map.

Do you have any replays for this I can watch?

Shock rifle works well by getting ZiS (bonus having cloak), and getting a KV8 to defend the ZiS.

Later you can get an IS2.


But yeah Im really enjoying just T1 with guards motor (2 cons, 2 penal, 2 guards), stall for T34/85s which are very strong now. I often get pushed off the map, but end up winning when the 85's arrive.


These strats do not work 100% of the time though, so its worth having other back ups in mind if your in trouble, like going T3.