I enjoy COH 2 and I like conscripts.

Maybe I'm in minority but I find conscripts a lot more rewarding and fun to play with than grens. That does not mean I don't find ostheer enjoyable, I'm just reading so much hate on conscripts and I wanted to present a differening experience.

With grens, you are sort of employed in the company "Grenadier C/O" where your job is to make grens dodge molotovs all day. You are constantly afraid of mortars, satchels and grenades as well. Shit, just lost a vet 1 gren at top semiosky munis. Fucking command lag. Goddamit there's the t70. Faust it.. fuck out of range. You are also constantly worried about taking too much manpower drain on panzergrenadiers, snipers quickly demotivate you etc..

With conscripts I don't feel the insta-death pressure so intensely, in fact most of the time it's the soviet infantry that are the one's throwing it and forgetting about it and extensive riflenade use just isn't my experience from 100 ladder games in 2v2 as both german and soviets. Me and others when playing Ostheer are buying LMGs which are good yes but very vulernable to squad AI and grenades, so in my experience, less riflenades. And don't you love it when you charge that p4 and disable it, getting away with 2-3 men using a con squad?

What do I think conscripts excel at?

- Reinforceing stuff in the field (saving the vet of that vet 3 atg)
- Rushing down snipers
- Distrupting paks
- Killing mgs (seriously, mg's have to defend choke points or the cons just pile them to death)
- Throwing at nades disabling tanks for my SU85s or getting rid of pesky light vehicles
- With veterancy and assault package, they are more than good enough vs anything infantry-wise.
- HORRAH

A lot of it comes down to hooorrah. Imagine if you had hoorah on your rifles in vCOH. Wehr wouldn't have a chance. They would get destroyed in 5 minutes, and in vCOH mg42's actually kept their bite and was a celebrated part of the game how extremely good mg42 could secure victory.

Hoorah is fun to play with! It's so awesome when conscripts are coming from everywhere trying to overrun you, and you are able to appreciate good play even when you are on the losing side. That's something I think a lot of players here need to keep in mind based on what I read here. Sometimes you get manhandled but you see that he was being smart and thoughtful while he did it.

Let's take a trip down memory lane..

Remember the truck pushes as PE/Wehr vs Brit/US on Rails&Metal and Wolfheze? The countdown to the arrival of the marder, the british CCS trying to compensate for the tommy losses. Those first aching minutes was true video game drama, every man counted and the fights over a specific house would often be extremely motivated and sometimes directly desperate.

I think we who played vCOH and OF for a long time (let's say, 10.000 games) we have a different appreciation for COH 2. And the early game play with grenadiers and mgs vs conscripts has a lot of potential, but right now it's skewed towards soviets by a small amount and I think it could be really good for gameplay if this was tuned.

I think we can all agree on as a community that the cliché hallmark of a wehrmacht player was his mg42 play and for americans his rifle micro. So Relic and COH 2 dev team, I hope you can continue to develop your product while keeping it mind that COH as a series has some core gameplay which really cannot be pronounciated enough and that's the early game with small arms that we all fell in love with, so please don't cheapen it or end up having it be less enjoyable than it was in vcoh, even in OF.

quality post

+1

+1

cept grens are better than cons in every way

and someone answer me this

if a conscript squad was on 1 squad member left, and reinforced 5 to get a full squad

would it cost more or less with a gren squad who had to reinforce 3?

cept grens are better than cons in every way

and someone answer me this

if a conscript squad was on 1 squad member left, and reinforced 5 to get a full squad

would it cost more or less with a gren squad who had to reinforce 3?

Assuming that was not a retorical question: Cons are 20/man to reinforce. Grens are 30.

20x5=100 for conscripts
30x3=90 for grens

cept grens are better than cons in every way

Categorically false.
This is the CoH2 equivalent of claiming the world is flat.

The balance is very intricate and meticulous, with a lot of variables, but Relic has managed to counterbalance them to almost complete equilibrium. Its a credit to the team, and one of the foundations on which the entire games balance cascade rests.

and someone answer me this
if a conscript squad was on 1 squad member left, and reinforced 5 to get a full squad
would it cost more or less with a gren squad who had to reinforce 3?

A Gren equals 1.5 Cons almost exactly, in DPS, survival and cost.

If both units had to pay 100 MP to reinforce to full, Sov would get that remaining 10 MP "for free", wheras now, in Grens, that last 10 MP is already purchased and invested in the last remaining Gren. That guy is "worth" 30 MP. But you cant divide his reinforce cost, because if its not possible to ever pay that 30 MP to reinforce him, because if he dies, the squad is dead.

The difference in re-inforce to full unit (by one models value) is hedged against the concrete FACT, that if that last Gren model dies, the unit is wiped, whereas at equivalent cost, the Con unit still has 2 models on the field (one full hp, one half hp).

This is probably difficult for some people to grasp, but it is not an imbalance. Its completely justified, necessary and fair. Both in terms of cost, and practical application on the battlefield.

Its a result of not being able to divide the cost/survival of that one last standing Gren whos existance is the only remaining vestige before wipe vs Con equivalency, where there are 2 models still alive at that point.

I dunno if I explained that well, but rest assured, there is no problem in this regard to the specific question of cost equivalency of reinforcing the squad to full.

Well, IMO conscripts - and everything on the soviet side for that matter - takes a lot more Work than the grens and the german faction in general.

That said, I do actually prefer the soviet side. The german faction is a bit boring with its HMG+Gren => 221 => PzIV => Panther.

There's not a real challenge if you just keep at max range with your stuff all the time.

cept grens are better than cons in every way

That means I am a great player. I often beat Grens with CONs, Yeah me!!!!

cept grens are better than cons in every way

i think it just seems that way because of the upgrades. the grenadier mg42 upgrade is much more powerful than the ppsh upgrades the conscripts have. even though it's twice the price, one grenadier squad with the upgrade can take on two conscript squads, and one conscript squad with ppsh will still be beaten by the grenadier squad. another problem is that grenadier mg42 upgrade can be bought very early while the soviet player have to get the specific doctrine for it and has to wait for two cps. this pretty much gives the germans a very heavy infantry advantage early game. perhaps relic should make ppshs come at one cp and make mg42 upgrades more expensive at 75 munitions. personally, i think it would be best if conscript to purchase ppshs without doctrines while the ppsh doctrine gets replaced with something else.

Well you also have to take account that scripts also have to purchase Molotovs and A.T. nades which slows down teching significantly. While Germans get their rifle-nades ability for free just because of basic teching, which is obviously placed for many balance reasons so first engangements aren't significantly one sided. Molotovs and At Nades requiring researching is fine, a lot of people complain about this for some reason. Conscripts don't really scale well at late game, unless they have PPSH or you have a surplus of muntions so you can molotov any German you see. But I don't think radical changes are going to fix that, I wish that scripts acted as volks while Penal troops acted like actual grens in vcoh but T1 is simply not worth it at the momment.

Bringing back vCoh, the reason why HMG42 in that game was effective was due to it can actually suppress well, but it had a much more skinny arc. In this game, I wouldn't mind it maintaining its effective suppresion (No! not instant pin) but instead make it's arc skinny and maintain the vulnerability of the Crew's health. Overall good post

With grens, you are sort of employed in the company "Grenadier C/O" where your job is to make grens dodge molotovs all day. You are constantly afraid of mortars, satchels and grenades as well. Shit, just lost a vet 1 gren at top semiosky munis. Fucking command lag. Goddamit there's the t70. Faust it.. fuck out of range. You are also constantly worried about taking too much manpower drain on panzergrenadiers, snipers quickly demotivate you etc..

Just loved this part of your post, really made me laugh