BARs on Paratroopers or "So a Kraut walks into a BAR...."

So, I had a thought: Why doesn't anyone ever put BARs on Paratroopers?

The obvious answer is that Paratrooper M1919A6s are better at long range and Thompsons are better at short range so if I want better long/short range firepower I should get M1919A6s/Thompsons.

I also know that if I am fielding both Riflemen and Paratroopers and I only have enough munitions to upgrade one of them with BARs, then I should put it on the Riflemen under most circumstances because trading one M1 Garand for a BAR is better than trading one Paratrooper M1 Carbine for a BAR because Paratrooper Carbines are better at all ranges than Riflemen M1 Garands.
So if I am looking to add firepower in general at average ranges, it makes more sense to put a BAR on Riflemen.

However, I've seen a lot of games where players put BARs on Pathfinders instead of Riflemen, when Pathfinder M1 Carbines are identical to Paratrooper M1 Carbines. This is the same trade as described above, so why is it unheard of on Paratroopers?

If someone is playing as Recon Support Company and has Paratrooper support squads that they want to use as assault troops, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to put a pair of BARs on them since they cannot get Thompsons? They'd be more durable than Riflemen and Pathfinders, being a six man squad, and be less prone to weapon drops than Pathfinders for the same reason plus not having the M1C sniper rifles.

Feedback would be nice. I'm gonna start trying them unless someone can tell me what key piece I'm missing.

Youre missing the point. Youre not just trading a carbine/garand for a bar. When you put a bar on paras, you also lose the possibility getting thompsons or 1919s. Youre trading thompsons/1919s for a bar. Its opportunity cost.

There's no alternative to improve pathfinders.

Thompsons or m1919s are better than bars, in pretty much any situation. With pathfinders you might as well throw a bar on there so they can get sniping more and function more than just as a support squad.

I did some testing and didn't find a significant difference with the bars on pathfinders though, I'm not sure it's even worth it over barring the riflemen instead.

The LMG or SMG give access to abilities for Paras. BAR does not.

Although one can give paras a BAR and then upgrade with LMG.

From what I have seen 1 BAR+1 LMG is as good or even better than dual LMG for paras. With BAR and LMG Paras have good DPS in all ranges and scatter mechanism seems to work well.

BAR work well with Pathfinder because it spread damage and make critical kill happen more often regardless who is carrying.

BAR R.E. and Pathfinder allows to vet faster and get good vet offensive vet bonuses while on Riflemen one get good all around bonuses but a bit slower.

Because 4 thompsons are better then 2 bars at close range and you get powerful ability.
Because 2 LMGs are better then 2 bars at long range and you get powerful ability.
There are good reasons why these weapons are doctrinal.

It's not a bad idea, but giving a BAR to support airborn squad is not good

BAR is not as good a weapon as you think


BAR squad should get closer for more DPS pumping, It puts the BAR squad at risk and drops the BAR

Thompson squad does not drop the weapon

that is a very big difference

Airborn has no RA bonus before it reaches vet3

If Airborn were to use a BAR, there would be very little good results


I hope the support airborn squad will also have Thompson

Just to clarify some things:
Thompson is better than BAR to ranges up 20.

Upgrading with 4 Thompson is cheaper cost 90 MU instead of 120 for 2 BARs.

Thompson also gives access to Tactical Asault.

Same Reason why Ranger Squad Should not use BAR

Lots of good feedback there, some more constructive than others. Lol

But what I was implying was that BAR Paratroopers are better at CQB than LMG Paratroopers, so if I am playing as Recon Support, which cannot get Thompsons on its Paratrooper Support Squads.

Many build orders using Recon Support start with Riflemen, two squads of Pathfinders into your officer, usually Lieutenant. Later in the game you might get a Paratrooper drop for the pack howitzer on the Paras themselves leaving your infantry composition as 1 RE, 1 Rifleman, 2 Pathfinders, 1 LT/Capt, 1 Paratrooper Support squad.

With that above, the best squad for CQB would be the officer with his one Thompson and added BARs, but it might be advantageous to have a second CQB oriented squad on some maps. In that case, putting BARs on the Paratrooper Support Squad instead of M1919A6s to maximize the CQB potential of them is what I was suggesting. Which is why I mentioned the comparison to Riflemen and Pathfinders.

So a different way of asking the question is: Which is a better use of resources to make a good CQB squad when playing as Recon Support, BAR Paratroopers, BAR Riflemen or BAR Pathfinders?

...

So a different way of asking the question is: Which is a better use of resources to make a good CQB squad when playing as Recon Support, BAR Paratroopers, BAR Riflemen or BAR Pathfinders?

I personally would go with Riflemen.

On the other hand why go CQC when you have expectant long range DPS with lmg Para and Pathfinder?

To answer your question, using BARs on Support Paras, I don't think it adds up to enough of an improvement to justify the cost in munitions or opportunity. The BAR is only a 50% increase in DPS (very similar curve too) for a paratrooper, but it's a 100% increase for a rifleman. Also, while paratroopers have the highest health of any USF squad, it's actually only 8% better than riflemen at vet 3.

BARs on Pathfinders are also bad, because the DPS increase is small, the weapon is likely to drop or be put out of service, and the best range of the weapon and squad are opposite (short vs. long).

However, BARs lack focus fire, so they tend to spread damage to multiple squad members. This makes them work well with a squad of Pathfinders getting critical hits on the wounded enemy soldiers.
It would be really nice if Thompsons and M1919A6s were focus fire false as well for this reason. The game lacks consistency with this setting.

To answer your question, using BARs on Support Paras, I don't think it adds up to enough of an improvement to justify the cost in munitions or opportunity. The BAR is only a 50% increase in DPS (very similar curve too) for a paratrooper, but it's a 100% increase for a rifleman. Also, while paratroopers have the highest health of any USF squad, it's actually only 8% better than riflemen at vet 3.

BARs on Pathfinders are also bad, because the DPS increase is small, the weapon is likely to drop or be put out of service, and the best range of the weapon and squad are opposite (short vs. long).

However, BARs lack focus fire, so they tend to spread damage to multiple squad members. This makes them work well with a squad of Pathfinders getting critical hits on the wounded enemy soldiers.
It would be really nice if Thompsons and M1919A6s were focus fire false as well for this reason. The game lacks consistency with this setting.

That is a very good answer. Thank you.

Are Paratrooper M1 carbines really twice as good as Riflemen M1 Garands? As an owner of both I can attest that I would much rather be shot by an M1 Carbine than an M1 Garand! Lol

Gameplay > Realism I suppose.

Are Paratrooper M1 carbines really twice as good as Riflemen M1 Garands? As an owner of both I can attest that I would much rather be shot by an M1 Carbine than an M1 Garand! Lol

Looks like I messed up on the numbers a bit-

Garand 6.79 close 1.7 far
BAR.... 13.2 close 3.94 far
Carbine 10.0 close 1.84 far

So it's more like-
Paras are 50%-10% better than riflemen, decreasing with distance
BARS are about twice as good as Garands
A paratrooper with a BAR has 33% better close-range and 100% better long range DPS
So, BARs are actually a long-range upgrade for paras, and you should just take M1919s for that instead.

Yeah, the Carbine's effectiveness is pretty silly. It deals more damage than the Garand per shot...
I have a Garand too, but not a Carbine! Love that rifle.

Yeah, the Carbine's effectiveness is pretty silly. It deals more damage than the Garand per shot...
I have a Garand too, but not a Carbine! Love that rifle.

I’ve got one of each of the mainline rifles from the war, and it’s silly how much better the M1 Garand is compared to everything else. Better sights, faster loading and eight shots instead of five and I haven’t even mentioned that it’s semi automatic yet!

My M1 carbine is a fine shooter too, I highly recommend getting one if you can. Original USGI ones can be expensive but a the IMI carbines made in the 90’s are a great facsimile. Mines a 1943 production National Post Meter but I got it cheap because it had a scope mounted on the side which had to have the holes filled back in, so it’s not a perfect collector example, but it shoots great and I was able to hide the damage under a new stock.

You get them for their doctrinal weapons! You can put bars on riflemen, which you get every single round!

Giving para Bars some additional skill could maybe help a bit. most certainly wouldn't turn it into viable pick, bit something new to look at.