Mirror Match

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I could not have said it better myself!

Who cares about 2v2 and up? Heck if Relic restricted those to non-mirror I wouldn't care.

Lots of people? Guderian/DrHorse Seb/Contador Jim/Rainbow Symbiosis/Lollypop have all won 2v2 tournaments in case you forgot.

As have I .

Hey man where and what do you play?

Third Strike, AE and cross tekken are the only fighting games I actually follow and play regularly (more following than playing these days!) I used to play down at Funland in London back in the day, but nowadays I settle for PSN or just have people over.

On topic: it's awesome to see so many people coming to the realisation that mirrors will be excellent for the game. Assimilation.

If you want to geek out over authentic German v Russian WWII combat, I hear they are making a campaign mode.

Mirror matches will give the game a better shot at being an e-sport ---> more interest ---> more money ----> more patches.

Lots of people? Guderian/DrHorse Seb/Contador Jim/Rainbow Symbiosis/Lollypop have all won 2v2 tournaments in case you forgot.

My friend and I beat DrHorse in a 2v2 once. 2v2 is fun but it's a joke when it comes to balance. 2v2 tournaments are fun but there's a reason Sunday Night Fights are 1v1 and it's not because they can't find enough players.

DanielD is 100% right. If you love the WW2 feel of CoH then there's a great single player campaign waiting for you. Or you can just play non-mirror matches. Please don't make the game worse for competitive players because you want to play make believe. You're hurting CoH 2 for people who care about competition by REMOVING a feature they want. Mirror matches would ADD something to the game, and if you don't like them then just don't play or watch them.

You cannot claim that CoH would be hurt by the lack of mirror matches; you can't argue that it makes the game worse! You can easily make an argument either way, what with the current free-wheeling evidence free discussion we're having.

Look, adding them or not adding them makes little to no difference; it's a very tiny effect on the competitive scene. I'm not going to be seriously sad if they are added, although I'll be annoyed. But stop lighting your hair on fire and shouting apocalypse over a minor non-feature which will have a minute impact on the game.

EDIT: While we're fantasizing about what might or might not happen with the addition of mirrors, how about I give it a shot? The competitive scene WILL (I have absolutely no doubt!) be damaged! Here's why:
1. Mirror matches suck. People hate watching them in SC2, why would they enjoy them here? They're just not interesting. People usually also hate playing them.
2. All of those lowly n00bs who won't buy the game because of mirrors (because there are a lot of people, who I've never met and have no evidence of their existence, who fit into this neatly defined category) won't ever have a shot at getting into the competitive scene, either as players or spectators, reducing the competitive community.
3. Balance will be even harder to fine tune, because now you have 4 match ups to balance. And don't mewl about how mirrors are always autobalanced, they aren't, since we're distinguishing between numerical balance (1:1 W/L ratio) and game balance. Imagine for sake of argument that the T-34 is underpowered in Axis V Allies, so they reduce its cost. But suppose the popular and standard strat is to go fast T3 Soviets in Sov vs. Sov so the game boils down now to who gets a T-34 base rush first. So more patches, more imba, and more lame match ups.

actually fast t4 was soooo strong in SvS.

@Feynmaniac

1. TvT is one of the favourite matchups in SC2. PvP nad ZvZ are hated, but it's due to how these factions are designed. I can imagine USvUS in vcoh as potentially interesting match-up, but what about Brits v Brits?
2. BS. I can imagine a lot of people who'd buy a game because of mirror matches, try the competitive scene and increase the competitive community. I imagine they're all called Fred.
3. Your math is bad and you should feel bad. There are 3 possible matchups in 1v1. I can imagine a lot of things for the sake of argument. In fact, I can imagine that you're wrong, and I'm right. Does that make it a fact?

I'm up for mirror matches.

@Feynmaniac

1. TvT is one of the favourite matchups in SC2. PvP nad ZvZ are hated, but it's due to how these factions are designed. I can imagine USvUS in vcoh as potentially interesting match-up, but what about Brits v Brits?
2. BS. I can imagine a lot of people who'd buy a game because of mirror matches, try the competitive scene and increase the competitive community. I imagine they're all called Fred.
3. Your math is bad and you should feel bad. There are 3 possible matchups in 1v1. I can imagine a lot of things for the sake of argument. In fact, I can imagine that you're wrong, and I'm right. Does that make it a fact?

My math is bad, and now I feel sad, although in my defense, counting was never my strong suit .

I think that's the whole point though, there's a lot of unwarranted hyperbole in this thread; strong claims are made, people get mad, and the wheels keep spinning in the mud. My three points were all intended to be in that fashion.

EDIT: I just realized that one of the pro-mirror arguments is actually quite silly. One argument is that players have to master fewer factions. But really what you're mastering is match-ups; the argument is really that you master fewer match ups if there are mirrors. In fact, this is false; you have to master just as many either way. Without mirrors, it's SvO and OvS. With mirrors its SvS and SvO.

EDIT 2: Another thing I just realized is that this debate seems to be going nowhere and I should really just reserve judgment until I've tried them myself.

stuff this guy said

i agree, mirror matches will have no effect on whether or not it is an e-sport. That is all about the community and community support by relic. would it make any difference to sc2's competitive scene if there wasnt any mirror matches?

Arguing that mirrors will magically make the game more competitive is silly. Good mirrors will make the game more competitive; bad mirrors, on the other hand, will drive players away.

If Relic can design factions that lend themselves to interesting and dynamic mirror matches, then mirrors should be in the game. If they can't, then mirrors shouldn't be added either.

Outside of some quasi-marketing arguments (which nobody here can make since nobody here has access to THQ's marketing and focus group materials), it comes down to pure gameplay. And because we can't discuss specifics of gameplay on these forums, any arguments one way or the other are completely baseless.

Wall of Text

+1

I just think mirrors are something which suit the preferences of players who want to play one faction, but it really is just a preference, without being objectively superior.

@Feynmaniac
3. Your math is bad and you should feel bad. There are 3 possible matchups in 1v1.

Arguing that mirrors will magically make the game more competitive is silly. Good mirrors will make the game more competitive; bad mirrors, on the other hand, will drive players away.

If Relic can design factions that lend themselves to interesting and dynamic mirror matches, then mirrors should be in the game. If they can't, then mirrors shouldn't be added either.

Outside of some quasi-marketing arguments (which nobody here can make since nobody here has access to THQ's marketing and focus group materials), it comes down to pure gameplay. And because we can't discuss specifics of gameplay on these forums, any arguments one way or the other are completely baseless.

yes

@Feynmaniac

1. TvT is one of the favourite matchups in SC2. PvP nad ZvZ are hated, but it's due to how these factions are designed. I can imagine USvUS in vcoh as potentially interesting match-up, but what about Brits v Brits?
2. BS. I can imagine a lot of people who'd buy a game because of mirror matches, try the competitive scene and increase the competitive community. I imagine they're all called Fred.
3. Your math is bad and you should feel bad. There are 3 possible matchups in 1v1. I can imagine a lot of things for the sake of argument. In fact, I can imagine that you're wrong, and I'm right. Does that make it a fact?

I know people that would love mirror matches they would disappointed if they weren't there. i know there are people that would boycott the game because of this issue on both sides of the fence. (those guys are in the minority reality is there is no pleasing them.) remember this you aren't the only people who enjoy coh and there are many people who play it all with different preferences, and backgrounds.

Anyone that says "I'll boycott the game if it has mirror matches" I really hope they don't buy the game because the multiplayer will be more enjoyable without the narrow minded morons that think everyone else should be forced to play the game the way they like it.

Deep down they know they will buy the game regardless, its just childish threats.

Anyone that says "I'll boycott the game if it has mirror matches" I really hope they don't buy the game because the multiplayer will be more enjoyable without the narrow minded morons that think everyone else should be forced to play the game the way they like it.

Deep down they know they will buy the game regardless, its just childish threats.

Without the narrow-minded morons that insist grenades kill light vehicles, how am I going to get past level 9 in ranked games?

For what its worth, I think the game needs mirror matches (for all the reasons stated before), but I don't want them in myself. Why?

Because a true mirror match means...

I enjoy the asthetical part of coh very much. Both in single- and in competitive multiplayer (the latter only enjoying through streams/shoutcasts, though). If people don't mind when one ostheer commander goes crazy and attacks another general, ok, but for me that's bursting my suspension of disbelieve (and it's tested by silly stuff in coh, as others have said).

So as an option: I why not. As a standard: no please.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S.: To many posters, pls reconsider that many many people play coh (and coh2 in the future) that want different things out of the game. I feel that there is much exclusion in some of the posts here (quoting randomly: "who cares about 2vs2 and up anyway?!"). People play comp-stomps, people play 4vs4, people play the single player, people play highly competitive, people play the scheldt. Deal with it. And please look around and don't think your way of playing is the only right way to do it.

Greets
Schepp himself