To get a game BIG in esport the game must first and foremost be FUN, it must be mad FUN and still require insane amount of skill.
(...)
By pushing CoH2 in an esport direction by cutting out the fun parts (like no-mirror matches), and im sure the same guys wants fixed damage and and so on.. then at the end the game stops being coh, and stops being fun and you can have an esport game with 100 people online top peak.
Mirror Match
24 Dec 2012, 13:02 PM
#281
1 
Posts: 300
So here is a part of a comment posted originally by spajn on official coh forums. I believe he made a good point so I cite it below.
24 Dec 2012, 16:11 PM
#282
Posts: 65
I enjoy the asthetical part of coh very much. Both in single- and in competitive multiplayer (the latter only enjoying through streams/shoutcasts, though). If people don't mind when one ostheer commander goes crazy and attacks another general, ok, but for me that's bursting my suspension of disbelieve (and it's tested by silly stuff in coh, as others have said).
So as an option: I why not. As a standard: no please.
Greets
Schepp himself
P.S.: To many posters, pls reconsider that many many people play coh (and coh2 in the future) that want different things out of the game. I feel that there is much exclusion in some of the posts here (quoting randomly: "who cares about 2vs2 and up anyway?!"). People play comp-stomps, people play 4vs4, people play the single player, people play highly competitive, people play the scheldt. Deal with it. And please look around and don't think your way of playing is the only right way to do it.
Greets
Schepp himself
Most of those users stopped playing coh years ago. The people keeping this game alive is the competitive community.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
24 Dec 2012, 17:22 PM
#283
Posts: 331
Most of those users stopped playing coh years ago. The people keeping this game alive is the competitive community.
have you ever seen the basic match lobbies and 2v2 random players? they far outnumber the people trying to start competitive 1v1 or 2v2 AT
24 Dec 2012, 20:54 PM
#284
Posts: 642
Actually, as it has been said, the competitive community is CoH is very very small, albeit VERY dedicated. It seems the competitive community is larger, simply because we are constantly interacting with competitive players.
If mirror matching is here to stay, then it has to be done right.
PS: You also cant include it as an option in automatch, simply because it defeats the whole purpose of speeding matchfinding.
If mirror matching is here to stay, then it has to be done right.
PS: You also cant include it as an option in automatch, simply because it defeats the whole purpose of speeding matchfinding.
25 Dec 2012, 09:14 AM
#285
1 
Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Why? As I explained on coh official forums:
How would the matchfinding be slower? It would be exactly the same but faster for who searches also for mirrors.
- If you want to play normally in ranked games (only Russians vs Germans) you DO NOT check the "allow also mirrors" option, and your experience will stay "authentic" and you will never play mirrors and you will never feel your game ruined. You will be possibly matched vs everyone searching with your opposite faction, besides checking or not the "allow also mirrors" option.
- If you want to play mirror matches in ranked games (so Russians vs Germans and Russians vs Russians and Germans vs Germans) you DO check the "allow also mirrors" option, and you can play with everyone of your opposite faction (between those who didn't want to play mirrors and between those who wanted to play ALSO mirrors but got a non-mirror matchup) and everyone of your same faction (between those who wanted to play ALSO mirror matches).
It's not hard imo, it won't split the community and everyone would really be happy.
How would the matchfinding be slower? It would be exactly the same but faster for who searches also for mirrors.
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25 Dec 2012, 10:26 AM
#286
Posts: 642
Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't be slowed to a crawl, it would just be slightly slower. It would be more noticeable in team games, of course (it already is in standard 2v2 AT vs 1v1 or classic 2v2, at least on my side of the pond).
Speaking of which, I would personally prefer it if 2v2 AT and classic 2v2 were matched together into the same pool. Yes, it is unfair for those without a solid, organized team, but it speeds up the matchmaking process, and they could add an algorithm so it tries to pair AT vs AT first and only expand into both options if it doesn't find any. Other competitive titles (I hate to say this, but SC2 is one) already have this, and it works. I only mention this because part of the motives Relic gave during their latest newsletter in pro of mirror matching was speeding the matchmaking process (who hasn't had a moment when there are only two teams of different factions in vCoH, and it just simply doesnt pair you, regardless of rank?)
Speaking of which, I would personally prefer it if 2v2 AT and classic 2v2 were matched together into the same pool. Yes, it is unfair for those without a solid, organized team, but it speeds up the matchmaking process, and they could add an algorithm so it tries to pair AT vs AT first and only expand into both options if it doesn't find any. Other competitive titles (I hate to say this, but SC2 is one) already have this, and it works. I only mention this because part of the motives Relic gave during their latest newsletter in pro of mirror matching was speeding the matchmaking process (who hasn't had a moment when there are only two teams of different factions in vCoH, and it just simply doesnt pair you, regardless of rank?)
25 Dec 2012, 14:45 PM
#287
1 
Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
deleted
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Dec 2012, 14:46 PM
#288
Posts: 429
People a few years ago did that. The replay are on GR I think.
26 Dec 2012, 06:03 AM
#289
Posts: 111
Scheldt players doesn't respect mirror matches.
26 Dec 2012, 06:14 AM
#290
Posts: 429
scheldt players would love mirror matches. Then they could all play brits.
26 Dec 2012, 07:47 AM
#291
Posts: 642
I guess, in general, brit players would love mirror matches...
26 Dec 2012, 08:52 AM
#292
1 Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Being myself both a 2vs2 ranked and AT player I would never want to play them together, never ever, because it would create major imbalanced in matchups exactly as it is in SC2.
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26 Dec 2012, 15:17 PM
#293
Posts: 393
Mirror matches are fine, as long as they don't detract from the Rus v. Wehr matchup.
Part of the magic of CoH has always been the way the factions interact with each other; the whole US vs. Wehr dynamic is a beatiful one because they are so different, yet share the same core CoH gameplay mechanics. In mirror matches, I fear a lot of this depth would be lost. Think of vCoH US vs. US; how boring would it be to see 2E4R from both players, then BARs vs. BARs, followed by M8 vs. M8 into ATG+snipers vs. ATG+snipers?
Would the game then be balanced to sort out the mirror matches, detracting from the non-mirror match (like nerfing BARs because they destroy anything a US player can field)? Or would it be left as it is, meaning the match-up would be pretty broken -> leaderboards meaning a lot less, since players are playing on the same leaderboard. Or would you split leaderboards, dividing the community?
Part of the magic of CoH has always been the way the factions interact with each other; the whole US vs. Wehr dynamic is a beatiful one because they are so different, yet share the same core CoH gameplay mechanics. In mirror matches, I fear a lot of this depth would be lost. Think of vCoH US vs. US; how boring would it be to see 2E4R from both players, then BARs vs. BARs, followed by M8 vs. M8 into ATG+snipers vs. ATG+snipers?
Would the game then be balanced to sort out the mirror matches, detracting from the non-mirror match (like nerfing BARs because they destroy anything a US player can field)? Or would it be left as it is, meaning the match-up would be pretty broken -> leaderboards meaning a lot less, since players are playing on the same leaderboard. Or would you split leaderboards, dividing the community?
sig by tricky 
26 Dec 2012, 15:24 PM
#294
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
scheldt players would love mirror matches. Then they could all play brits.
MVGame
26 Dec 2012, 15:26 PM
#295
Posts: 487 | Subs: 1
Think of vCoH US vs. US; how boring would it be to see BARs vs. BARs, followed by M8 vs. M8 into sherman vs. sherman?
Your example is a bit too black and white, but i see your point.
I, personally, would love mirrors in "fun mode" but not in ranked games. Mirror matches kind of ruin the uniqueness of the CoH.
26 Dec 2012, 17:30 PM
#296
Posts: 642
The good thing is, the game only has to factions, and balancing is more "simple", that way.If we'd had the stream of patches that OF had, without OF ever coming out, CoH would be a competely different game, and IMHO way more balanced.
With two factions, they could even perform unit specific balancing, such as Stug vs T-34, or Rusky sniper vs German sniper, without having to worry about the cascade of consequences with the other faction, or when mixing them in 2v2, etc.
That said, I still think 2v2 will suck if both sides are mixed, but Relic has surprised me more than once
With two factions, they could even perform unit specific balancing, such as Stug vs T-34, or Rusky sniper vs German sniper, without having to worry about the cascade of consequences with the other faction, or when mixing them in 2v2, etc.
That said, I still think 2v2 will suck if both sides are mixed, but Relic has surprised me more than once
26 Dec 2012, 19:08 PM
#297
Posts: 331
the problem is that the randomness of the RNG will become too prominent in the matchup and you cant rebalance the faction to accommodate that, since it would effect both sides
26 Dec 2012, 19:57 PM
#298
Posts: 65
the problem is that the randomness of the RNG will become too prominent in the matchup and you cant rebalance the faction to accommodate that, since it would effect both sides
This is true. My thing with RNG is that it effects bothsides equally. Yes, in one match it might effect you negatively but overall in a lifetime of games it will be even.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
26 Dec 2012, 23:30 PM
#299
Posts: 331
tournaments are not a lifetime of matches however.
im not for taking rng out, im saying mirror matches will be decided more by luck than skill which is a problem in competitive play
im not for taking rng out, im saying mirror matches will be decided more by luck than skill which is a problem in competitive play
27 Dec 2012, 00:50 AM
#300
Posts: 429
tournaments are not a lifetime of matches however.
im not for taking rng out, im saying mirror matches will be decided more by luck than skill which is a problem in competitive play
That's war.
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