British base smoke barrage

I don't see any harm in adding a smoke barrage to the Pyrotechnics sections. Make it free, but it still triggers the global howitzer cooldown.

+1
I think as long as it shares the cooldown there's no reason this would be asking too much

I don't see any harm in adding a smoke barrage to the Pyrotechnics sections. Make it free, but it still triggers the global howitzer cooldown.

Can we cut the howitzer out? Its one of the only, already heavily limited indirect options that the brits have, making it cooldown with smoke will flat remove it from the game

Having a Pyro squad have a shared cooldown on their flare and smoke barrage seems like a fair approach, and making the smoke just arrive as a very light scattered offmap.

That way you are can use them both in a reasonable fashion, just not on a single squad.

Can we cut the howitzer out? Its one of the only, already heavily limited indirect options that the brits have, making it cooldown with smoke will flat remove it from the game

How? It's literally just a buff.

Instead of just having the explosive barrage, you've got a choice between explosive or smoke.

The explosive barrage is better at displacing weapons in almost all respects, the smoke barrage is free and doesn't need to be on target.

How? It's literally just a buff.

Instead of just having the explosive barrage, you've got a choice between explosive or smoke.

The explosive barrage is better at displacing weapons in almost all respects, the smoke barrage is free and doesn't need to be on target.

I am going to want or need smoke, for free, a hell of a lot more frequently than I need HE barrages

In addition one of the primary uses of smoke in a british army is to let a unit close in to drop an artillery flare on a position they otherwise couldn't approach

If smoke barrages trigger the cooldown the base howitzers will never be OFF cooldown to allow for normal barrages, or counter battery, or overwatch etc.


And the time it takes the base howitzers to reposition is hideoua compared to a mortar smoke drop, so an offmap would allow a much more timely response.

I am going to want or need smoke, for free, a hell of a lot more frequently than I need HE barrages

In addition one of the primary uses of smoke in a british army is to let a unit close in to drop an artillery flare on a position they otherwise couldn't approach

If smoke barrages trigger the cooldown the base howitzers will never be OFF cooldown to allow for normal barrages, or counter battery, or overwatch etc.

And the time it takes the base howitzers to reposition is hideoua compared to a mortar smoke drop, so an offmap would allow a much more timely response.

If you're using the smoke barrage instead of the explosive barrage at every opportunity, then the smoke barrage sounds like an improvement to me.

There are actually plenty of viable solutions:
First gun could fire the Smoke barrage
Second gun could fire the HE barrage

This could fix a number of issues like the issue that currently in live HE barrage cost the same regardless if 1, 2 or Ari-bust is used.

Actually the faction is in rather good spot and once could even make the HE doctrinal or anvil/hammer only.

And the time it takes the base howitzers to reposition is hideoua compared to a mortar smoke drop

Yeah they also have way more range. Also they buffed the rotation rate relatively recently, ever since that change ive felt they re-position fast enough

I'm against more mainline being able to do everything, even if it's with an upgrade. We tried that with rifles and it was shit design, why will it be better with Tommies? Smoke should be special not on every god damned squad, especially not every God damned 5 man squad with panzer gren target sizes and 2 lmgs and grenades and a bonus to their LOS. can we at least pretend the games health is the end same here? Vanilla factions more than make due with mortar smoke and some doctrinal options, why should the brits have it on their mainline infantry and all their generalist vehicles as well? Are Tommy Bren blobs not ba enough as is? Does nobody even pretend to give half a shit anymore?

I'm against more mainline being able to do everything, even if it's with an upgrade. We tried that with rifles and it was shit design, why will it be better with Tommies? Smoke should be special not on every god damned squad, especially not every God damned 5 man squad with panzer gren target sizes and 2 lmgs and grenades and a bonus to their LOS. can we at least pretend the games health is the end same here? Vanilla factions more than make due with mortar smoke and some doctrinal options, why should the brits have it on their mainline infantry and all their generalist vehicles as well? Are Tommy Bren blobs not ba enough as is? Does nobody even pretend to give half a shit anymore?

Rifles are also a close range squad with very high near DPS, which Tommies are not.

And the reason we have to scrape aroind for ideas of how to make this work is because of this:
Vanilla factions more than make due with mortar smoke and some doctrinal options,

Guess which army doesn't have a god damn mortar in their army lineup? Smoke is a seriously important tool that right now the only way the brits can reliably call is via a static emplacement or waiting until they have tanks.

Rifles are also a close range squad with very high near DPS, which Tommies are not.

And the reason we have to scrape aroind for ideas of how to make this work is because of this:
Vanilla factions more than make due with mortar smoke and some doctrinal options,

Guess which army doesn't have a god damn mortar in their army lineup? Smoke is a seriously important tool that right now the only way the brits can reliably call is via a static emplacement or waiting until they have tanks.

EXACTLY! rifles were designed around having smoke! Needing to close to be at maximum effectiveness and it was still too strong to have a single unit able to do everything. It will be no different for Tommies who are just as frequently blobbed. Players don't want to use the tools they already have, why would they? They want to be able to JUST build their mainline infantry and force of every enemy obstacle.
Mainline infantry should NOT have smoke. I know it's hard to tell from WFA designs but the game is actually supposed to be about combined arms, not just the most powerful mainline. Smoke on Tommies will dumb down ukf play and dissuade any thoughts of combined arms play.

EXACTLY! rifles were designed around having smoke! Needing to close to be at maximum effectiveness and it was still too strong to have a single unit able to do everything. It will be no different for Tommies who are just as frequently blobbed. Players don't want to use the tools they already have, why would they? They want to be able to JUST build their mainline infantry and force of every enemy obstacle.
Mainline infantry should NOT have smoke. I know it's hard to tell from WFA designs but the game is actually supposed to be about combined arms, not just the most powerful mainline. Smoke on Tommies will dumb down ukf play and dissuade any thoughts of combined arms play.

Can't combine arms with smoke if none of your units cheaper than a cromwell have smoke and you don't have a mortar

Not to mention that brens are WORSE at close range.

It doesn't have to be on Tommy at all, i said this before but going to repeat, a smoke discharger upgrade on UC is a reasonable solution to me. The upgrade will required platoon cp and locked out wasp while vicker K still can be mounted .

It doesn't have to be on Tommy at all, i said this before but going to repeat, a smoke discharger upgrade on UC is a reasonable solution to me. The upgrade will required platoon cp and locked out wasp while vicker K still can be mounted .

It's arguably more powerful on a UC.

If you did put it on a UC though, I wouldn't lock out the WASP. Smoke is what it needs to act as a mid-game garrison clearer. The UC has the range to just kite.

Smoke + attack ground will be a bit too powerful then. UC smoke + Tommy pyro will have the same capabilities of Garrison clearing while better represent combined arm gameplay

UC's armour going to be neft next patch so add utilities can be the way to go. I think This will help UC remain viable event after the neft and also add a mobile smoke platform to UKF lineup.

Can't combine arms with smoke if none of your units cheaper than a cromwell have smoke and you don't have a mortar

Not to mention that brens are WORSE at close range.

Except you DO have a mortar. With the highest smoke barrage range of them. It's not mobile, no I'll grant you that, but the pit itself could be tweaked to make up for that shortcoming to deliver smoke. Do everything mainline infantry is a bad design. It didn't work when there was a faction designed specifically with that in mind and it won't work stapled onto a mainline designed to be powerful but specifically to lack utility.

Except you DO have a mortar. With the highest smoke barrage range of them. It's not mobile, no I'll grant you that, but the pit itself could be tweaked to make up for that shortcoming to deliver smoke. Do everything mainline infantry is a bad design. It didn't work when there was a faction designed specifically with that in mind and it won't work stapled onto a mainline designed to be powerful but specifically to lack utility.

Indeed, in small map, mortar pit's smoke work well and arguably be the best form of all somke - creeping smoke barrage. But in large map, long range of somke cant make up for the fact that the pit is immobile. A mobile smoke platform is still required.

Smoke on Tommies will dumb down ukf play and dissuade any thoughts of combined arms play.

I don't agree with that, especially since it's not just "smoke on tommies". It's smoke on pyrotechnic tommies, who would have to call it in from howitzers halfway across the map. In what way is that so much better than mortar smoke? If anything it's worse because it's arrival time would be much longer.

This is on a faction that can get AOE healing on their mainlines, which it also relies on for most of its healing. If you want howy smoke on more than one squad that means less healing

I agree a pit rework is the better idea, but i don't think comparing the base howy idea to rifle smoke is an fair comparison

It would make much more sense for smoke flares and barrage to be mutually exclusive upgrades. But this would probably have to be balanced by something as its not like UKF are the worst faction anymore, who can now bolster blob to victory.

Indeed, in small map, mortar pit's smoke work well and arguably be the best form of all somke - creeping smoke barrage. But in large map, long range of somke cant make up for the fact that the pit is immobile. A mobile smoke platform is still required.

The range is the only issue, which is why I champion the idea of the garrison bonus being increased barrage range. That being HE barrage and smoke. They don't need to rebuild the lineup, just properly adjust what they have.

I don't agree with that, especially since it's not just "smoke on tommies". It's smoke on pyrotechnic tommies, who would have to call it in from howitzers halfway across the map. In what way is that so much better than mortar smoke? If anything it's worse because it's arrival time would be much longer.

This is on a faction that can get AOE healing on their mainlines, which it also relies on for most of its healing. If you want howy smoke on more than one squad that means less healing

I agree a pit rework is the better idea, but i don't think comparing the base howy idea to rifle smoke is an fair comparison

But even now pyrotechnics Tommies can have 5 models at 0.8 unvetted target size, can have AT or double lmgs, increased LOS, build cover and trenches, further increased LOS when in cover, grenades, gammon bombs..... They already do enough without adding a conplicated* smoke option to then as well.

Tommy healing needs toned down to make Pyro more attractive, not making Pyro more powerful. I mean regardless of alternative options 30mu game lone aoe healing on the move is going to be stupid strong. Compare to quite literally any other healing in the game and it stands out as the strongest... That's why it's chosen all the time.

*I say complex because the base howis (while better than previously) are slightly unresponsive. If you could preface the howitzers it might work, but trying to make ample use of them could have them delayed when you need it most.