Kubel needs changes

The Kubel was a HMG at launch and it was the most cancerous, frustrating BS the game had seen since the days that the scout car could house a sniper.

Flat out no. Never again.

We have seen it before and it was removed for very good reason.

The Kubel was a HMG at launch and it was the most cancerous, frustrating BS the game had seen since the days that the scout car could house a sniper.

Flat out no. Never again.

We have seen it before and it was removed for very good reason.

I said it should not come early as it did before, it would be unfair.

Upgrade to HMG should only be accessible after when a HQ is built. Allies wont suffer any disadvantage from any of these changes. There is nothing wrong in that.

The only reason why it was unfair is because it came too early. I suggested it should come later instead. That is fair I would say!

Not even close. The short set up and tear down on a cheap and mobile vehicle with a wide arc of fire was hideous to deal with and paired far too well with sturmpioneers for both cleaning up and also repairing the kubels.

Even the UC is signifigantly more expensive, requires an expensive upgrade, has a tiny arc of fire and has to pay MU every time they want to have a short suppression burst. And UKF don't have T0 engineer squads that also have great combat stats.

The Kubel does not need to replace the HMG and removing the MG34 will only gimp OKW late game suppression once AT weapons are present in numbers.

Not even close. The short set up and tear down on a cheap and mobile vehicle with a wide arc of fire was hideous to deal with and paired far too well with sturmpioneers for both cleaning up and also repairing the kubels.

Even the UC is signifigantly more expensive, requires an expensive upgrade, has a tiny arc of fire and has to pay MU every time they want to have a short suppression burst. And UKF don't have T0 engineer squads that also have great combat stats.

The Kubel does not need to replace the HMG and removing the MG34 will only gimp OKW late game suppression once AT weapons are present in numbers.

The MG Kubel should not be as strong as it was. It could perform similarly to the way the Maxim does. That is what it should do instead.

It wont be that cheap if costs you ammo also! 60 ammo, it has less armour. It is more vulnerable to small arms than any other vehicle. It should be enough since both UC and Kubel has to be micro a lot. I do not see really the issue in that.

I see the issue in it. I played against it back when kubels suppressed.

On a basic level there would need to be a price tag for every burst of suppressive fire, as the UC has to do.

But more generally the Kubel does not need or warrant redesigning into anotber anti infantry platform. OKW is crawling with them and the early availability of and repair speed on Sturmpiomeers is an issue. I do not miss the mp bleed days of three kubels dancing back and forth on your cutoff while a sturmpio squad keeps them repaired and may it never be seen again.

It is a useful recon vechile. It, like the 221, struggles to get the vet it needs to scale past minute 1. A bit of shared veterancy to help it stay relevent is a lot more practial of a tweak than throwing out the historical balance changes that were already made to revamp a unit into the one thing everyone agreed at the time it should not be - aka a mobile MG.

In a fight to the death the Kuble will outlast any other t0 infantry it faced in 96% of the tests. I'd call that being able to fight. It's a part of an army though, not the whole thing. Use it to cap and use its mobility to help goon enemies.

Also cons are not cheap as they cost 240mp and then another 205mp in sidegrades (that do nothing but stuff for cons so it is a direct cost increase to them) and 35 fuel. That's half a T70 EXTRA just for a full kit.

The Kuble costs 210mo and can beat 280mp in an outright fight. Cons cost 240mp and can lose against 250mp infantry.

Rather questionable testing a kubel against infantry on negative cover.

Why people want to give back units abilities and stats that specifically made them batshit op and were direct reason for nerfs?

Ohhhh I see why, they want that back.

I guess this idea is off the table then, the HMG idea. UC can supress on the move with the need of upgrade and extra munition for ability to take place.

It should be similarly in that way. Kubel present should be more AI focused. Take away vet 1 map hack for something else, for performance instead. Maybe it should also have ability like UC only when it has an MG42 upgrade or something. An upgrade option.

No Kubel HMG. It was a mere suggestion. As I have stated, "as long as everyone is satisifed with the idea".

The reason why I mentioned that was because Kubel has not been fixed for ages. It needs fixing. It has to be more of an attractive option as all other units are. Like I have mentioned comment number 132, those things is what it needs.

It needs to start somewhere from being bad to a better option.

If it as derelict as it currently is. Replace with a different unit if Kubel does not get adjusted. Currently it is a terrible mechanic to have an option that it horrible in many situations for many reasons. There is no other unit in game that is as horrible as this one.

Has to be more AI focused because it does not suit its current role, simply bad.

Why people want to give back units abilities and stats that specifically made them batshit op and were direct reason for nerfs?

Ohhhh I see why, they want that back.

someone overlooked that thus chance would mean a higher pricetag and muni upgrade. Similar with other units: more expansive -> stronger .

you think like that: oh a 210mp kubel with heavy MG and suppress! OPOPOPOPOP!!

someone overlooked that thus chance would mean a higher pricetag and muni upgrade. Similar with other units: more expansive -> stronger .

you think like that: oh a 210mp kubel with heavy MG and suppress! OPOPOPOPOP!!

You overlooked a tiiiny weeeenie bit here.

WHY a vehicle that wasn't even armored and had literally no purpose in the war then glorified fed-ex, extremely situational recon(which is its role in game, recon, fast capping and point harassment) and transport for officers and was never employed in direct combat, because it wasn't made for it should suddenly be good at combat in any way.

Should I remind you that it was equally bad in CoH1 and no one had ever problem with it(Schwimmwagen is modification of kubelwagen)?

You overlooked a tiiiny weeeenie bit here.

WHY a vehicle that wasn't even armored and had literally no purpose in the war then glorified fed-ex, extremely situational recon(which is its role in game, recon, fast capping and point harassment) and transport for officers and was never employed in direct combat, because it wasn't made for it should suddenly be good at combat in any way.

Should I remind you that it was equally bad in CoH1 and no one had ever problem with it(Schwimmwagen is modification of kubelwagen)?

i agree, historical authenticity is really important on that one. it's a kubelwagen and not a Kampfwagen after all.

Kubel sucks but this unit is the least of everbody's problems right now. I think the penetration of the mgs on the m3, bren carrier needs to be nerfed but I doubt it'll happen. The kubel is basically useless if either of these two are on the field.

Then why was it initially implemented at first as a combat unit in this game. That was its initial purpose. Although irl a vehicle like this would never engage combat but it is in the game.

UC was histrically not used much infantry combat either, more than Kubel of course but it was mainly used for Transportation mainly. It was also used as a support unit because could not ever engage in close distances.

Kubel should be for the sake of the game, serve as an AI unit as it initially was. DO NOT BRING BACK THE OLD KUBEL. It has to be better than it currently is. Which faction needs a recon unit in order to win the game. Even then, nobody uses Kubel a recon unit to win the game. Most certainly not.

Although some may not consider it the most pressing issue. It is indeed an issue that has not been dealt with care or even with thorough consideration. It needs to serve AI, that is what it has to do. Nobody wants a recon unit or even needs it.

Then why does not any other faction have a recon unit too?

What it needs to be is a combat unit.

Like @Katitof said, what the purpose of the vehicle is historically. It is vulnerable, that is how should be but its overall DPS or damage output needs to be increased. It was implemented in the game as a support unit, it should be that way.

Have an MG upgrade option to increase damage, accuracy like what Bren Carrier has. Give it the ability to shoot on the move which it hardly does on vet 1.

If not, and if it requires to be stationary. It should excel better than UC. Increase cost of Kubel in order for it get the buffs it needs and deserves. It should be a "glass canon". Has the damage output but it is vulnerable. I do not think it is a problem as UC is a powerful unit with way better armour. Buff Kubel.

In Conclusion it should be a proper support unit like UC is. The only downside would there really be then for the Kubel is just its high vulnerability to small arms, and maybe requires it to be stationary. It should not be an issue in buffing this unit at all. It is currently lackluster. Remove vet 1 "Detection" or map hack away for more combat performance instead.

OR


Vet 1 should be "able to shoot on the move".

This will fix the Kubel, plz make this happen.

It needs to serve more purpose than just that tiny period. Veterancy needs to be addressed also.

Rather questionable testing a kubel against infantry on negative cover.

It neg cover. No cover. There is a difference. And the test was to illustrate that the Kuble CAN in fact kill, despite the claim otherwise. It's too difficult to properly singlehandedly replicate an attack using a Kuble and sturms as is what we would face in an actual game.

At any rate I don't see anyone else sacrificing any of their time to create tests, just claims.

People want to change the Kuble into another AI vehicle in a faction stacked through the ass with AI and are ignoring the balance problems that a Kuble +sturms would create all because they just want it that way.

It neg cover. No cover. There is a difference. And the test was to illustrate that the Kuble CAN in fact kill, despite the claim otherwise. It's too difficult to properly singlehandedly replicate an attack using a Kuble and sturms as is what we would face in an actual game.

At any rate I don't see anyone else sacrificing any of their time to create tests, just claims.

People want to change the Kuble into another AI vehicle in a faction stacked through the ass with AI and are ignoring the balance problems that a Kuble +sturms would create all because they just want it that way.

It does not mean Kubel problems should be ignored.

You can compare exactly to Brits. Infantry Section combo with UC. That is great AI stacked faction. I do not see the issue in fixing Kubel which it currently experiences. Could one counterclaim this as an issue also, vice versa?

OKW does have access to good AI units but it does not mean that Kubel should remain the way it is being lackluster.

It needs to do more as a support unit. Compare it to UC which is perfect as a support unit. It should least meet its standards of being able to support or have good DPS which it is currently lacking. Have an MG upgrade option would be good. Change vet 1 ability as "Detection" is considered OP for more combat effectiveness.

Why would anyone pick Kubel as it currently is. Definitely not 1v1 and most certainly not any higher. Pros even can elaborate that fact. Kubel should be a glass canon. Strong damage output but weak as it currently is. That should not be a problem for allies to counter it at all.

Kubel should not be a derelict choice if it is there. If no changes are made, then I suggest replacing it with another unit if nobody wants to see it changed!.

It does not mean Kubel problems should be ignored.

You can compare exactly to Brits. Infantry Section combo with UC. That is great AI stacked faction. I do not see the issue in fixing Kubel which it currently experiences. Could one counterclaim this as an issue also, vice versa?

OKW does have access to good AI units but it does not mean that Kubel should remain the way it is being lackluster.

It needs to do more as a support unit. Compare it to UC which is perfect as a support unit. It should least meet its standards of being able to support or have good DPS which it is currently lacking. Have an MG upgrade option would be good. Change vet 1 ability as "Detection" is considered OP for more combat effectiveness.

Why would anyone pick Kubel as it currently is. Definitely not 1v1 and most certainly not any higher. Pros even can elaborate that fact. Kubel should be a glass canon. Strong damage output but weak as it currently is. That should not be a problem for allies to counter it at all.

Kubel should not be a derelict choice if it is there. If no changes are made, then I suggest replacing it with another unit if nobody wants to see it changed!.

UC is 50mp more (volks and penals cost difference) that's why it's better in combat. It's also UKFs anti garrison tool.

The combo of UC and Tommy is pretty good, but not nearly as synergistic as sturms and a Kuble. If a UC takes damage it needs to spend muni to repair or wait until sappers hit the field. UC and tommies also puts UKF on the back foot for map control. Follow up infantry are also more expensive. UC is also significantly slower than a Kuble.

Adjust the Kuble vet so it can earn it and see where that goes. Full on overhaul very well might not be needed. You want it to suppress? That's in its vet! So is self heal.

You really need to stop comparing it to the UC though. It's a more expensive unit designed to augment the UKFs lack of field control and their initial bleed. It's a strong fighter because it's designed to. That's it. It can't scout and it doesn't cap..


Players do build it. I build it and I see it alot in team games because it allows 1 unit to do the back capping of multiple players and still catch up in time to contribute to the initial fight. I've also used it to get behind that pesky starting vickers and pushing off the first unit they built.


Putting more AI into the okw starting will make it overbearing and impossible to play against with 2 shock units. Sturms as it is can already dominate the start of the game, let alone with a no bleed, fast, murder machine in tow.

UC is 50mp more (volks and penals cost difference) that's why it's better in combat. It's also UKFs anti garrison tool.

The combo of UC and Tommy is pretty good, but not nearly as synergistic as sturms and a Kuble. If a UC takes damage it needs to spend muni to repair or wait until sappers hit the field. UC and tommies also puts UKF on the back foot for map control. Follow up infantry are also more expensive. UC is also significantly slower than a Kuble.

Adjust the Kuble vet so it can earn it and see where that goes. Full on overhaul very well might not be needed. You want it to suppress? That's in its vet! So is self heal.

You really need to stop comparing it to the UC though. It's a more expensive unit designed to augment the UKFs lack of field control and their initial bleed. It's a strong fighter because it's designed to. That's it. It can't scout and it doesn't cap..


Players do build it. I build it and I see it alot in team games because it allows 1 unit to do the back capping of multiple players and still catch up in time to contribute to the initial fight. I've also used it to get behind that pesky starting vickers and pushing off the first unit they built.


Putting more AI into the okw starting will make it overbearing and impossible to play against with 2 shock units. Sturms as it is can already dominate the start of the game, let alone with a no bleed, fast, murder machine in tow.

You do state correctly the differences between the UC and Kubel. Why they are the way they are. How Kubel buff would make OKW overall more stronger and to ascertain whether these changes would conflict the interests of balance!

It should start of with a fix on its veterancy which is its main problem. How low it should be, I am not too sure exactly but for microing the most vulnerable vehicle in game. There should be a lot of reward from that.


Here is how I see as a fix of pure diversity, only to change its current Veterancy.

Make the Kubel the unit of OKW to obtain its highest vet requirements the fastest. The reason being is the fact that after the 5min mark, it has to be behind as support as it becomes utterly more vulnerable.

1./ Should be rewarding for microing a vehicle that is always vulnerable and for how frequent you have to put it to repairs. I think it should gain vet 5 around a time course of 10min. It is reasonable as it is definitely one of the hardest units to keep alive.

Sounds crazy but it would definitely change diversity of the gameplay.

OR

2./ If the Vet quick is not such a great idea!
Just fix vet, no quick early gains but gets default accuracy buff to provide as a better support unit than it currently is.


In this way, the more attractive this option is. It is going to create a kind of gap where they have invested in a Kubel instead of Volks which is its current viable option. Vet 1 "Detection" should go away for something more balanced, vet 1 "extra performance" instead. If it gets either the one of the 2 options, I believe it will not need an MG-upgrade. Maybe even increase price of Kubel if necessary!

Kubel should be performing in this way. It does need substantial changes, I think so too. It just needs to fill up its role more.

If it can start gaining its vet it will become more survivable. Vet 2 is 20% increased mobility and vet 3 is self heal. The issue is getting there. It doesn't need a rework if that alone makes it scale better.

Also you want to change its vet 1 "to better suit its role" but it's current vet suits it's current role. You want to change its vet to suit the role you want to change it to. It's current vet 1 ensures that if that's the only level of vet you get on it. Detection is a toggle that gives you minimap spotting. It allows yoi to not be out flanked. Terribly powerful. You have to be careful not to make it too powerful in combat or we return to Kuble storm,unless you plan on sticking a fuel cost on to it.

change vet requirements make it more mobile...its turning speed is so slow

i agree, historical authenticity is really important on that one. it's a kubelwagen and not a Kampfwagen after all.

Absolutely. Imagine if Patton took his last ride in a bren carrier! He might still be alive today!@

I believe that to accurately reflect on germany's wartime difficulties that the kubel should be increased to 260mp and have its gun removed. It would be realistic.