Kubel needs changes

And unlike a Volks squad, the kubel did not bleed mp and also only took up 3 pop cap keeping your manpower income higher. It will save you the cost of adding that volks squad over its lifetime.

"Did not bleed"
Are kubels free now?
Boi that would be great! As useful as cheap it is

M3 pulls its weight though because it's a highly effective shock unit in the early game. The capability of chasing down squads on retreat makes the unit worth its cost.

Kübelwagen isn't outright terrible, but it's certainly underperforming for its cost. Usually people lose it after a few minutes of ninja capping with it, at which point they regret not getting a volksgrenadier squad for only 40mp more.

But with M3, you have to invest in fuel plus a flame engineer squad (170MP + 60 munitions) or 300MP penals. Also, Kubel can cap and constantly harass the map and cut offs especially in 1 v 1s. Kubel got a nice armor buff few patches ago too.

But with M3, you have to invest in fuel plus a flame engineer squad (170MP + 60 munitions) or 300MP penals. Also, Kubel can cap and constantly harass the map and cut offs especially in 1 v 1s. Kubel got a nice armor buff few patches ago too.

Investing in a kubel that cost no fuel to literally loose that unit in 2-3 minutes
VS
Invesing in M3 to have a solid 7 min + spare units after the M3 dies.

The problem its pretty clear, is it now?
Edit: Both factions can afford its "investments" only one is more reliable than the other

"Did not bleed"
Are kubels free now?
Boi that would be great! As useful as cheap it is

Bleed is what we call the MP required to reinforce squads as they lose models.

A Volks squad even used as harrassment may/will llose models as it does so. Perhaps 100's over a fast paced early game.

Vehicles do not lose models. They only lose hp, in an all or nothing way. A kubelwagen does not need reinforcing and does not bleed. It costs 210mp for its lifespan.

With it costing less than volks and having under half the occupied pop cap, it is not only cheaper, but does not drain mp while fighting, and lowers your mp income by less.

You can easily save 250mp over the lifespan of the kubel compared to an early build volks, to also get your usual number of volks squads.

...

A single kubel has less effective HP than a volks squad.
Saying that kubels "dont bleed" its a fallacy and BS. If you played with kubels as you said you should know that.
Either you have a backup of Spios to repair it one or two times or you simply loose it or park it in base with 10% HP.
You dont "win" any MP bleed battle with kubels, they are not snipers neither mortars. They are not even cannon fodder since they are paper armor cars. If a UC or M3 appears and kubel has less than 50% HP its simply dead.

Pls dont spread missinformation. If we were talking about LVs we could agree that they stop MP bleeding. Kubel is simply not the case

Bleed is what we call the MP required to reinforce squads as they lose models.

A Volks squad even used as harrassment may/will llose models as it does so. Perhaps 100's over a fast paced early game.

Vehicles do not lose models. They only lose hp, in an all or nothing way. A kubelwagen does not need reinforcing and does not bleed. It costs 210mp for its lifespan.

With it costing less than volks and having under half the occupied pop cap, it is not only cheaper, but does not drain mp while fighting, and lowers your mp income by less.

You can easily save 250mp over the lifespan of the kubel compared to an early build volks, to also get your usual number of volks squads.

spoken like a true boss.

A unit which inflicts bleed and is immune to bleed at the same moment cant be UP. Not even taking vet 1 map hack into account. (we do not want to talk about its SELF REPAIR at vet 3, wtf?)

spoken like a true boss.

A unit which inflicts bleed and is immune to bleed at the same moment cant be UP. Not even taking vet 1 map hack into account. (we do not want to talk about its SELF REPAIR at vet 3, wtf?)

As katitof said.
Give shared XP gain.
Since as currently is, kubels need to "Do damage" to get vet 1 and god forbids vet3.
I mean the only real way to get vet3 is to have some snipers napping and you straight run over their heads with kubels. Otherwise its a waste of time and resources to keep that stupid car alive. Vet3 "self repair" WOW, i mean, ITS SO DURABLE, IT CAN SELF REPAIR!

Edit: People, cut the BS. Kubel is not good, it is not bad for scouting and capping. But its definitely not good at combat. It shouldnt but OP wanted to make it viable. Understand that.

And unlike a Volks squad, the kubel did not bleed mp and also only took up 3 pop cap keeping your manpower income higher. It will save you the cost of adding that volks squad over its lifetime.

No it just wastes your sturmpioneers time.

I sure do like it that the main strength of early OKW is wasted repairing on the backline instead of being on the frontline (with another Volk squad instead of kubel) /s

But with M3, you have to invest in fuel plus a flame engineer squad (170MP + 60 munitions) or 300MP penals. Also, Kubel can cap and constantly harass the map and cut offs especially in 1 v 1s. Kubel got a nice armor buff few patches ago too.

Its armour was nerfed.

But with M3, you have to invest in fuel plus a flame engineer squad (170MP + 60 munitions) or 300MP penals. Also, Kubel can cap and constantly harass the map and cut offs especially in 1 v 1s. Kubel got a nice armor buff few patches ago too.

There's no point in directly comparing the M3 to the Kübelwagen like that. We need to compare their cost efficiencies. The M3 is more expensive, but it also has a huge impact on the game (against OKW). The Kübelwagen struggles to be worth the 210 it costs. M3 gets built in most Soviet games against OKW, while the Kübelwagen gets used quite rarely.

As people have said many times already: if the Kübelwagen were fine, players would use it. They don't. In almost all cases, they decide to wait for 40 mp and get Volksgrenadiers, because they are more versatile, more cost effective, more combat effective, and stay relevant throughout the game. Getting volks is simply a no-brainer decision right now.

In my opinion Kubel just need dodge while on move , it need to be hard to kill while on drive but this dodge doesnt work on close range and maybe at the close range when under focus fire kubel can be easly decrewed...For The buff I think at the 5 star AI capability can be buff something like model killing rate or just buff with cost of munitions for example for 30 mun can do a instant suppress. Overall kubel is "light utility car" if u buff too much that early OKW can be ridiculus. Also maybe but just maybee 4 man squads like sturm pio or obers can jump in in the kubel for fast transport but dont get me wrong not for the fight!

Absolutely not no.

It retains usefulness as a maphack from vet 1.

The only thing is needs is some trickle shared vet from infantry to let it actually get past vet 2.


And a 88mm on top. Maybe a dozer blade.

Don't forget coaxial IR stgs. And a flamethrower.

Simple fix, Devs.

Veterancy should be less than SU scout car, since it is the weakest light vehicle in game. There should be much more reward for microing a very delicate unit. Especially when it hardly scales later on.

Improve its accuracy

Remove vet 1 ability to Detect for more combat effectiveness instead. Since many say it is strong, it would satisfy both the allied and for axis players. It should serve more of a combat unit than it being more of a scout unit.

Infrared Searchlight should be the only vehicle for scouting or reconnaissance.

Boom, finished!!

Then we all can sleep better, especially for HelpingHans!!

Does everyone agree?

Are there going to be fixes? Does anyone know?

Are there going to be fixes? Does anyone know?

There wont be any changes before the new commanders are released and brought in line with hotfixes which is by the way completely reasonable.

But lets hope that Andy_RE gives the mod team the permission for a bigger summer balance patch.

Are there going to be fixes? Does anyone know?

The same time the comet gets a buff called veterency and ostwind can shoot down planes.

So not for a while, plenty of units in line and have been in line for years

There wont be any changes before the new commanders are released and brought in line with hotfixes which is by the way completely reasonable.

But lets hope that Andy_RE gives the mod team the permission for a bigger summer balance patch.

I hope so too!

The same time the comet gets a buff called veterency and ostwind can shoot down planes.

So not for a while, plenty of units in line and have been in line for years

Ostwind is hot garbage
Comet is never picked, the Churchhill and Firefly combo is TOO good and Comet got a decent nerf
Bofors still can't shoot down planes due to a bug
17 pounders AT emplacement is hard countered by dive bombs and Ele/Jag
Shocks still somehow get bugged to have no CD on their grenades
STUG is laughable now, and most OST rush T4
Luch has no idea how to aim
Su76 overshadowed by a heavy nerf
Crybabies nerffed TNT meanwhile goliath is a moving TNT that is stealth in cover. All because people cna't be bothered to maek a minesweeper


The list goes on

spoken like a true boss.

A unit which inflicts bleed and is immune to bleed at the same moment cant be UP. Not even taking vet 1 map hack into account. (we do not want to talk about its SELF REPAIR at vet 3, wtf?)

Isn't that what all the other light vehicles do too?

Conclusion: nerf kubel and the ostheer mg42

Isn't that what all the other light vehicles do too?

Conclusion: nerf kubel and the ostheer mg42

Read the suggested ideas. You can not conclude without giving any reasons than you have currently stated.

MG42 is fine as it, Osteehr focuses heavily on support weapons, it should be good as it currently is. Why nerf it is the question? It is ridiculous simply what you have stated. Vickers in this game is King, definitely better than MG42. I think both are fine as they are. No nerfing for osteehr mg42 and Vickers.

Kubel, is a terrible unit emphasised by many people in this forum and we agree can on the fact it needs certain changes. Although some think it is ok but do still agree on the fact however it needs certain improvements.

Kubel should not be a recon unit, it be more AI focused. Vet 1 ability to "map hack" should be replaced with performance of a sort.

If Kubel was OP, why is not everyone taking it.

Here is another idea for Devs if there wont be that much changes onto Kubel. Here is a plan B. As long as everyone is satisfied with this idea of course. I will explain why

Kubel should be the HMG as it was in some ways but has to be upgraded 45-60 munitions in order to do so. Upgrade should come only after when a HQ is built. So it means it can become HMG after when a HQ is built. If it should be a mobile HMG as it was. It will be unfair it came as early as it was back then.

Sounds good, put it back as it was but the effect should not come early as it was. Kubel currently is a choice hardly anyone picks since it is hardly that useful. Change vet also. It has to be a combat unit as it initially was. Kubel idea for it as it currently is as a recon unit was not really thought through. IR HT is the unit, not Kubel, Kubel should be AI unit. Give Price Increase. Give it a bit more additional armour when upgraded. Kubel needs to setup before any suppression can be inflicted.

It will promote aggressiveness with the use of a fragile unit that can be countered as every knows by every combat unit, small arms especially. Very fragile to AT then and to other vehicles.

So this can be seen in two perspectives. Mobile MG at the cost of survivability, compared to every other HMG. This will put OKW in someways upsides and downsides. If OKW is aggressive, this is what it should looks like. How it was initally was a good idea but its timing was simply, pure bad. It should come later the HMG upgrade option for Kubel. Promote as it is a aggressive faction, increase diversity, gameplay.

Also it would cost them additionally for a HMG. Cost around 45-60 ammo

Similary how Brits complain about Mortar Emplacement and how they want a mobile mortar. OKW should have similar trait with instead HMG to complain about its survivability scale, and to get into buildings which of course a car is not able to do. This is what I think of a balanced perspective. Some upsides and downsides.

MG34 goes away, becomes doctrinal or something to balance it out maybe or not.

Obers vet 0 get "supressive ability" only with upgrade.

OKW will be the faction to heavily rely on micro as well as dependant on mobile HMGs. This will definitely increase the diversity of the game.

This is an idea which does not require much effort for Devs to change it I believe. Currently it is a horrible unit.

Nobody likes "Map Hack". Hardly anyone chooses Kubel. It hardly vets up. It hardly has an effect as a support unit which it should be more of. Should not be a recon unit. It needs revamp and some endearment instead of despicable affection.

Read the suggested ideas. You can not conclude without giving any reasons than you have currently stated.

MG42 is fine as it, Osteehr focuses heavily on support weapons, it should be good as it currently is. Why nerf it is the question? It is ridiculous simply what you have stated. Vickers in this game is King, definitely better than MG42. I think both are fine as they are. No nerfing for osteehr mg42 and Vickers.

Kubel, is a terrible unit emphasised by many people in this forum and we agree can on the fact it needs certain changes. Although some think it is ok but do still agree on the fact however it needs certain improvements.

Kubel should not be a recon unit, it be more AI focused. Vet 1 ability to "map hack" should be replaced with performance of a sort.

If Kubel was OP, why is not everyone taking it.

Here is another idea for Devs if there wont be that much changes onto Kubel. Here is a plan B. As long as everyone is satisfied with this idea of course. I will explain why

Kubel should be the HMG as it was in some ways but has to be upgraded 45-60 munitions in order to do so. Upgrade should come only after when a HQ is built. So it means it can become HMG after when a HQ is built. If it should be a mobile HMG as it was. It will be unfair it came as early as it was back then.

Sounds good, put it back as it was but the effect should not come early as it was. Kubel currently is a choice hardly anyone picks since it is hardly that useful. Change vet also. It has to be a combat unit as it initially was. Kubel idea for it as it currently is as a recon unit was not really thought through. IR HT is the unit, not Kubel, Kubel should be AI unit. Give it a bit more additional armour when upgraded. Kubel needs to setup before any suppression can be inflicted.

It will promote aggressiveness with the use of a fragile unit that can be countered as every knows by every combat unit, small arms especially. Very fragile to AT then and to other vehicles.

So this can be seen in two perspectives. Mobile MG at the cost of survivability, compared to every other HMG. This will put OKW in someways upsides and downsides. If OKW is aggressive, this is what it should looks like. How it was initally was a good idea but its timing was simply, pure bad. It should come later the HMG upgrade option for Kubel. Promote as it is a aggressive faction, increase diversity, gameplay.

Also it would cost them additionally for a HMG. Cost around 45-60 ammo

Similary how Brits complain about Mortar Emplacement and how they want a mobile mortar. OKW should have similar trait with instead HMG to complain about its survivability scale, and to get into buildings which of course a car is not able to do. This is what I think of a balanced perspective. Some upsides and downsides.

MG34 goes away, becomes doctrinal or something to balance it out maybe or not.

Obers vet 0 get "supressive ability" only with upgrade.

OKW will be the faction to heavily rely on micro as well as dependant on mobile HMGs. This will definitely increase the diversity of the game.

This is an idea which does not require much effort for Devs to change it I believe. Currently it is a horrible unit.

Nobody likes "Map Hack". Hardly anyone chooses Kubel. It hardly vets up. It hardly has an effect as a support unit which it should be more of. Should not be a recon unit. It needs revamp and some endearment instead of despicable affection.

i can the hear the cry to here (from the future): "i must now build an AT gun or upgrade handheld after 4min to counter a kubel...but i want build the 5. squad instead"
My answer: try to deal with clowncar NOW in the early 2.min as axis player...many fail hard (good examples: last tournements)