OKW balance thoughts and suggestions

Hi guys,

First I would like to say that since balance preview release I played both multiplayer (1v1, 2v2 3v3) and vs AI game modes, with all factions and probably most games with OKW (two reasons for that: 1. my favourite faction 2. most important changes involved) and I would like to share with you my opinion on what I experienced.

Soviets suffered good changes, they overall fell stronger now, the only concern is that penal batalion will be the only base infantry that we will probably see if changes go live as they are now.
USF suffered also good changes, the only thing that feel strange is that Mg doesn't come in the same time with the mortar, this being a sensible combo and a starting variant: instead starting with rifle / RE spam you should have the possibility to chose an mg / mortar combo start.
UKF doesn't feel to different at least in my opinion.
Ostheer feels verry weak, the changes doesn't help to much. I realy think that the fifth grenadier is needed in the squad - it should be implemented as an upgrade from T2 or T3 I guess. The grenadiers are virtualy the link between all other OH units that keep the army together. Even if you have cheaper teching, vehicles or upgrades, if the binder it's not resilient, you will have a weak army.

But what concerns me the most is OKW changes.

In my opinion OKW feels weaker and it's not just because adaptation. It's about their AI and AT solutions in middle game.
Let me explain. What we have now is a strong AI squad (SPs) that get even stronger through the game and rewards the player if preserved and vetted. A weak/so-so AI squad that can be turned into a decent AT squad and if blobbed into a letal AT squad. Of course it's about Volks. So both units are going to achieve their max potential in late game, which is kinda normal.
Now, in balance preview mode we have a potent AI squad (SPs) that suddenly changes its role and becomes a so-so AT squad by getting a shreck and a meh AI squad (remember the changes to shreck and bazooka! 25% damage on infantry targets). SPs are more expensive and less resilient than volks. So in late game their AT role will fade, because of the features mentioned earlier and because they have to face more powerfull guns (for example, a T70 gun doesn't compete with a T34 gun).
On the other hand we have a weak/so-so AI squad that can be turned no more into an AT squad, but into a mediocre AI squad by getting two STGs.

Conclusion: in middle - late game, we will have some weird mix of mediocre infantry that doesn't excell at anything, and can be easily wiped.

Related to AT solution, let me tell you what I think is a good AT:
- it needs to have staying power (resilience) in order to fight
- it needs to have range
- it needs to do an important amount of damage against vehicles.

Unfortunately, raketen doens't fit to these fatures. It has no staying power - it needs to constantly run back to base or get decrewed. What good is an AT unit that shoots one time and then it has to run? Or that is easily decrewed by its verry own pray?
Sturms are not deadly (they have only one shreck, compared to pzgrens that has 4 models also, BUT they have 2 shrecks) and can get wiped pretty quick. Not even a combo between these 2 units can offer a proper AT solution, I didn't felt that.

So I thought to some solutions:

1. Increase raketen crew's durability and buff its damage for just a bit. Effects: OKW will have an AT solution that has staying power on the field and can make it trough the game.
2. This one is older, and others have presented it to in the same form or a little different but I will write it anyway: Remove shreck from SPs and let them with their AI role, create a Tank hunters squad that cost 380 MP has 4 men and is buildale from medic HQ. Thw squad comes with a default shreck. At vet 2 it
has "specialized aim" ability that costs 25 amo, lasts for 30 seconds and increases accuracy with 30%. Effects: SPs will keep their AI role and OKW player may chose between 2 starts, medic hq or mechanized hq, chosing as light AT solutions pumas or tank hunters.

Please let me know what you think and thank you in advance for your imput!

i always wanted double shreck on spios tbh, they are already expensive and AT wise they are a lackluster solution. And minefield detector could add a smoke grenade

BTW OP, you posted on the bug section

And minefield detector could add a smoke grenade

30 mun for faster repairs and a sweeper that can be swapped with a stg44 anytime isnt already good enough?

30 mun for faster repairs and a sweeper that can be swapped with a stg44 anytime isnt already good enough?

Compared to what? In order to achieve what?

You know smoke is really helpful to repair vehicles and it has an independent munition cost.

And who talked about costs? Raise it to 50 if you wish...

Why not change Raketenwerfer since it is issue on both sides

Check my proposals https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/283816#Comment_283816

See what you think.

Sturmpios die easily, dont scale well mid and late game.

Make Volks instead as an initial unit of the game, buff slightly Sturmpios received accuracy to make more of a viable combat unit. It just dies easy. Maybe give flamethrower upgrade for Sturmpio to make it more viable or something.

Yeah make spios shoot lasers or something they are useless earlygame /s

@blvckdream

On this other forum also, with highlights: https://www.coh2.org/topic/88296/revamp-volksgrenadiers-terms-of-versatility-okw/page/2#post_id735046

To see more clearly


I agree with the points you have agreed on. Keep Obers the way they are. Others needs changing

The real issue is most of the others. The Vet speed is too slow because the requirements are high, also due to the fact how they perform overall which makes it all the more difficult.

Why is Kubel the only vehicle in game made useless in after a short amount of time? There is no really no other vehicle that seems that way. It needs to serve more purpose. It is available but seems more or less derelict at times.

Buff its AI performance and remove cap. I really do not care about capping, since in most maps, it is crammed, it is not like you can flank every time.

Kubel, make it similar in terms of Universal Carrier. Currently, is it is usually a bad investment that can already decide the game, depending heavily on which maps your are on. Other vehicles do not have to be considered as much except Kubel.

Give it maybe twice the firepower it currently has. It is bad as it is being quite vulnerable, therefore it would be fair enough for it to do some more damage.

Before it could damage Universal Carriers Health nearly by half, now it does only 1/6 or 1/5. Hardly the way it was before, worse now. It is evident.

Give buff and increase price to 240-250 (around there). Give also some upgrades if possible. Universal Carrier in comparison serves better overall. Remove ability to Cap
____

Volks now. They are bad by default, terrible. Always lose to Tommies by default, usually able to kill 1-2 Tommies. Grens are better in some ways. If vehicles get buff, nerf volks. Or give them something else, as it is, it is problematic.

The following vehicles needing buff

Kubel
&
Luchs

those two since they perform overall worse than others in their tier and for their price in comparison.

____

Decrease the Vet requirements. The only units that I see are fine, in terms of gaining vet perfectly throughout my game experiences are

Volks
Obers
PanzerIV
Panther

These are the units, whose vet requirements are perfect as it is, since it does not take forever as the others. That really needs changing.

Others have incredibly a harder time, some never even high than vet 3, takes drastically more time because of some units lacking its performance to gain to that certain level

OKW as it stands, a faction that needs more development, and thinking through. Currently, there is just many issues. It would rather stick onto Wehrmacht since I personally think they are better overall, although does need slight adjustments but not as much as OKW.

volks are not bad, stop saying that.
If you want to beat IS, flank and rush them with CQC, even trading Spios to expensive IS can be done.
Kubel buff? I dont think so, it come too early to be powerful by any means.
Luchs could use a buildtime buff, but just that

volks are not bad, stop saying that.
If you want to beat IS, flank and rush them with CQC, even trading Spios to expensive IS can be done.
Kubel buff? I dont think so, it come too early to be powerful by any means.
Luchs could use a buildtime buff, but just that

How is Kubel powerful, makes no sense, it is bad. What is so powerful about it because I do not see it? Cant adapt in many situations as any other light vehicle in game, compare Universal Carrier similar price, it is evident. It is only good at capping, basically the onlyy light vehicle that can cap mainly, which gives it major downsides, since many maps are urban, not much space, only this unit for early game. Should have more AI focus instead, remove Cap. It takes lots of damage, does little damage even for that matter, it is bad.

Volks, depends heavily on ammo. Without it, they are crap. Grenadiers are better for sure.

Sturmpio, should be 5 models, costs 340 or less, to make it capable for aggressiveness, close quarters. If this happens, remove STG for volks. Give them instead MG34 or MG42 upgrade, make volks, long range unit focused.

Luchs for a specialist, should have slight adjustments in accuracy. Other vehicles does better.


If they are not bad, tell me, are they good by default or what is it that makes them good without the reliance on ammo the Volks?

Even the Kubel? If it were that powerful, everybody would at least pick it but no, it is hardly chosen, in comparison to Universal Carrier UKF which can actually be considered powerful.

If you do not play OKW, then you can not tell how good the units are. Otherwise you would not say, Kubel being powerful as it or Volks are not bad without giving any reasons for it (by default without upgrade) !!

...
Kubel buff? I dont think so, it comes too early to be powerful by any means.
...

In other words: Kubel bad, it need be bad, very cheap, use for cap and recon.

And for the rest of the textwall...
Start reading more than writing, play some 1v1s or watch pro players.
Not even alliefanboys considered worth discussing with you, you should be ashamed.

In other words: Kubel bad, it need be bad, very cheap, use for cap and recon.

I feel like the kubel can afford a small buff. It barely does any damage and its vet requirements are kinda crazy high considering the unit.

I feel like the kubel can afford a small buff. It barely does any damage and its vet requirements are kinda crazy high considering the unit.

Kubel can do some damage, it just have too little armour. The simplest solution is keeping its stats unchanged, but giving it shared experience.

On the other hand, Doge is too good for its price. I prefer a Doge nerf than a Kubel buff.