Why not Jagdpanther?

please, tell me what is the equivalent armor of 120mm at 30°from horizontal plane

It doesnt matter.
If IS-2 has 30° sloped armour and the Penetration data for the panthers main gun is also tested against a steelplate of sloped 30° then it says that the panther can penetrate 174mm of armour at a distance of 500m against a sloped steelplate at 30°(which is exactly what the IS-2 sloped armour is).

30° = 30°

It seems you don t understand that or you don t want to understand it.
You could also ask: please, tell me what is the equivalent Penetration for the panthers main gun of 174mm at 30°from horizontal plane.It doesn t matter.

And the IS-2s main gun was aso not the most accurate since it was a howitzer gun and howitzers tend to be unaccurate.Not to mention the extremely slow rate of fire of 2 shots per Minute of the IS-2, while panthers and tigers could shot 8-9 shots per Minute and the guns where much better accurate.

I m sorry to say but IS-2 wasn t the wonder tank you want to see him.

It doesnt matter.
If IS-2 has 30° sloped armour and the Penetration data for the panthers main gun is also tested against a steelplate of sloped 30° then it says that the panther can penetrate 174mm of armour at a distance of 500m against a sloped steelplate at 30°(which is exactly what the IS-2 sloped armour is).

30° = 30°

It seems you don t understand that or you don t want to understand it.
You could also ask: please, tell me what is the equivalent Penetration for the panthers main gun of 174mm at 30°from horizontal plane.It doesn t matter.

And the IS-2s main gun was aso not the most accurate since it was a howitzer gun and howitzers tend to be unaccurate.Not to mention the extremely slow rate of fire of 2 shots per Minute of the IS-2, while panthers and tigers could shot 8-9 shots per Minute and the guns where much better accurate.

I m sorry to say but IS-2 wasn t the wonder tank you want to see him.

I say again, it is a rule to measure the sloped armor from vertical plane, if you are not even capable of computing the equivalent 120mm 60° slope armor , and just ended up by saying "it doesn't matter" ,what's the point of arguing if you don't know anything about it?

continue your "30° from vertical = 30° from horizontal" comment, " It doesn't matter" won help you do your math better.

continue your "30° from vertical = 30° from horizontal" comment, " It doesn't matter" won help you do your math better.

This was what i have saying i Quote it out for you:

60° from vertical = 30° from horizontal.

You should buy better glasses or read more carefully.

60° from vertical is the exactly same angle as 30° from horizontal.

Because 60° + 30° = 90°.

This was what i have saying i Quote it out for you:

You should buy better glasses or read more carefully.

60° from vertical is the exactly same angle as 30° from horizontal.

Because 60° + 30° = 90°.

you Reich data is 30°, IT IS A RULE TO MEASURE THE SLOPE FROM VERTICAL PLAN I SAY AGAIN,

THE JS-2 mod 1944 is 60° BY THIS STANDARD, IF YOU CAN'T COMPUTE IT, SO LET IT BE

"IT DOESN'T MATTER" WON'T SAVE YOUR MATH

you Reich data is 30°, IT IS A RULE TO MEASURE THE SLOPE FROM VERTICAL PLAN I SAY AGAIN,

THE JS-2 mod 1944 is 60° BY THIS STANDARD, IF YOU CAN'T COMPUTE IT, SO LET IT BE

"IT DOESN'T MATTER" WON'T SAVE YOUR MATH

If this is really all from vertical then look at the Tigers armour data: It says 80°.WOW Tiger has 80° sloped armour RELIC i want my sloped armour tiger NOW.
If you are right then Tiger has much better sloped armour then IS-2.

Tiger:
Hull Front (Upper) : 100mm @ 80

All armour datas are from horizontal if you would look into it.(And yes Tigers armour was slightly sloped 10° from vertical = 80° from horizontal cause 80 + 10 = 90)
Now you running out of arguments and logic i think.

BTW here you can see the proof that i m also right of the Penetration data from horizontal:
Your text to link here...
Its pak 43 (king tiger) but the datas are the same and there it says:

Penetration figures given for an armoured plate 30 degrees from the horizontal

So: Armour from horizontal and Penetration from horizontal.
30° = 30°. like i said i was right.

Affe = 1 Point.
UGBEAR = 0 Points.



But since you are so opressed comparing the heavy IS-2 with the medium panther.Lets compare it with King Tiger:

IS-2 armour = 120mm sloped.
King Tiger = 150mm sloped.

IS-2 gun Penetration(500m) = 147mm
King Tiger gun Penetration(500m) = 217mm.

IS-2 rate of fire = 2 shots per Minute.
King Tiger rate of fire = 8 shots per Minute.

we need the king tiger, sturmtiger, and jagdtiger. soviets need t-44 and su-100.

we need the king tiger, sturmtiger, and jagdtiger. soviets need t-44 and su-100.

T-44 never saw any combat during WW2.He came in too late when the war already ended in may 1945.

T-44 never saw any combat during WW2.He came in too late when the war already ended in may 1945.

same thing with the pershing but it was in coh1. fine soviets wont get t-44 thats fine with me as long as i get king tiger and sturmtiger thats all i care about.

same thing with the pershing but it was in coh1. fine soviets wont get t-44 thats fine with me as long as i get king tiger and sturmtiger thats all i care about.

Pershing was used in WW2.But only very late and the us army had only used 20 of them before the war ended.

But not the T-44.
T-44

Combat history[edit]World War II – briefly fielded in 1944–45, but kept out of combat

But there are other tanks for soviets left like the IS-1 or KV-85 or ISU-122.

HISTORY SMASH!!!

HISTORY SMASH!!!

Yeah sorry we have gone a Little bit off-Topic.

UGBEAR is just a troll. Blaming others to be "Reich"-fanboys just because they proof him wrong. He even refused to believe Panzer IV (H) and StuG (G) could defeat the T-34/76 on longer ranges than the T-34/76 could do.

He actually reminds me of this epic thread starter, years ago. IS-2 best tank, invincible!
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=7019

UGBEAR is just a troll. Blaming others to be "Reich"-fanboys just because they proof him wrong. He even refused to believe Panzer IV (H) and StuG (G) could defeat the T-34/76 on longer ranges than the T-34/76 could do.

He actually reminds me of this epic thread starter, years ago. IS-2 best tank, invincible!
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=7019

Did I said JS-2 is invincible? Your Panther L70 75mm Kwk42 gun could penetrating 240mm equivalent armor at 1000m and claim something ridiculously nerfed before it even haven't been in the game is a pure Reich fanboy proof

Prove me the Panther Kwk42 L70 75mm main gun could penetrating 240mm RHA armor at a distance of 1000m or stop trolling or fooling others.

Did I said JS-2 is invincible? Your Panther L70 75mm Kwk42 gun could penetrating 240mm equivalent armor at 1000m and claim something ridiculously nerfed before it even haven't been in the game is a pure Reich fanboy proof

Prove me the Panther Kwk42 L70 75mm main gun could penetrating 240mm RHA armor at a distance of 1000m or stop trolling or fooling others.

UGBEAR = troll.
BTW you still ignoring my post #45 there is the proof.
Lol UGBEAR is ignoring posts that doesn t fit his reality.
IS-2 didnt had 240 armour.It had 120mm at 30° same as the steelplate with panther gun was tested.So panther could penetrate it cause:

174mm panther gun Penetration(against steelplate 30° from horizont) > 120mm armour of IS-2(sloped also against 30° from horizontal.

UGBEAR = troll.
BTW you still ignoring my post #45 there is the proof.
Lol UGBEAR is ignoring posts that doesn t fit his reality.
IS-2 didnt had 240 armour.It had 120mm at 30° same as the steelplate with panther gun was tested.So panther could penetrate it cause:

174mm panther gun Penetration(against steelplate 30° from horizont) > 120mm armour of IS-2(sloped also against 30° from horizontal.

As I said twice, Mr Troll&Ignorance, THE RULE OF MEASURING IS FROM VERTICAL PLANE, even your source haven't shown it's from horizon or vertical plane but you still insist it's measure by horizontal plane.


BTW, 174mm plate at 30° from horizon=348mm RHA protection, that is a post-WWII 3rd Generation standard. AKA T-64A and M1 Abrams (350mm RHA agaist KE) , Good luck with that!

As I said twice, Mr Troll&Ignorance, THE RULE OF MEASURING IS FROM VERTICAL PLANE, even your source haven't shown it's from horizon or vertical plane but you still insist it's measure by horizontal plane.


BTW, 174mm plate at 30° from horizon=348mm RHA protection, that is a post-WWII 3rd Generation standard. AKA T-64A and M1 Abrams (350mm RHA agaist KE) , Good luck with that!

Show me it s a rule measuring from vertical pls.I wanna see that rule.And pls explain me about 80° sloped Tiger armour.I want to have an Explanation from you.

Your math is simply wrong also.You cant make a Little bit of math and saying thats the Penetration from 90° angles RHA equivalent.You forgot all mechanical and physical numbers that Play a role when a Shell hit an angled or non angled steelplate.You have also no idea of mechanics and physics.You only use triangle math funtions and forgot all physical and mechanical numbers that affect such a testing.panther will of course have less Penetration against RHA.but anyway you want understand that either.

Show me it s a rule measuring from vertical pls.I wanna see that rule.And pls explain me about 80° sloped Tiger armour.I want to have an Explanation from you.

good luck with your 348mm-RHA-penetration-world-record-breaking-Kwk42-L70-75mm-WWII-panther -main-gun.

Congrats, your 3rd Reich technology is beyond allies' at least 20 years

good luck with your 348mm-RHA-penetration-world-record-breaking-Kwk42-L70-75mm-WWII-panther -main-gun.

Congrats, your 3rd Reich technology is beyond allies' at least 20 years

Pls gie me the source that panthers gun could penetrate 348mm RHA.I wanna see that.
You are a master of ignoring logic.Tell me also about mechanical and physical numbers that Play a role when a Shell hit an angled or non angled plate.

Your text to link here...
Tiger s gun.
(500m distance)
88 mm KwK 36 L/56 Pzgr 39-shell
30° = 110mm
90° = 130mm

According to your triangle function System this numbers should be different for 90°.PLS EXPLAIN ME THAT WITH LOGIC!The "Sloped armour effect" simply doesn t effect the Shells Penetration SO MUCH like you believe.You simply making math but ignoring mechanics and physics.

Pzgr 40
30° = 155mm

your triangle function a simply wrong you can see it there.You ignoring all mechanical and physical numbers that affect such a testing.PLS EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!!I have market it for you.

You simply can t make a testing for 30° then use triangle function and say :"Oh if he would hit it in 90° it would be that and this numbers!If you wanna know what Penetration the gun have for 90° YOU HAVE TO TEST IT.

And another thing: These IS-2's were knocked out at a distance of over 1,500 meters in a head on engagement with Tiger Ausf.E's on the Eastern front in late August 1944 (Note the glacis is penetrated right above drivers visor).

Actually Soviet tanks hroughout the war faced the same problem Germans were facing late in the war. The steel wasn´t the finest quality and got brittle. Could explain what you are obviously seeing on this picture.

And another thing: These IS-2's were knocked out at a distance of over 1,500 meters in a head on engagement with Tiger Ausf.E's on the Eastern front in late August 1944 (Note the glacis is penetrated right above drivers visor).

Actually Soviet tanks hroughout the war faced the same problem Germans were facing late in the war. The steel wasn´t the finest quality and got brittle. Could explain what you are obviously seeing on this picture.

Great sources and logic.
I wanna see ugbear explain that!
It seems that UGBEARS way of thinking: "Oh i made a testing against 30° plate and then i use triangle function math to tell you what would be the Penetration for 90°." - is simply stupid.

UGBEAR will ignore that you can be sure.

@UGBEAR tell me about all mechanical and physical factors that affect such a testing?
What about the heat?
What about the material of the Shell and steelplate?
What is the mechanical resistance of different angles?
What impact Play the front form of a Shell in different angles?
How much does the thickness of the armour affect the mechanical resistance?
What factor Plays the material in the mechanical resistance?
What about mechanical weak Points in the armour?
If the material of the steelplate would be made of paper what would be the Penetration for a steel Shell?




What will be the result of this Shell forms on armour Penetration?How much will the armour Penetration Change if they hit the armour in a sloped or non sloped angle with different Shell form types?Which Shell will be the best, which the worst and what about mechanical factors?
Which Shell will have most mechanical resistance and which least and how much Change this if they hit the plate on different angles?

UGBEARS answer:"I make triangle math function and ignoring all this".