Poll for hotly debated units in new commanders.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 09:08 AMddd

Mechanized strenght vs okw has nothing to do with any bugs, its all about wc51 and cav rifles synergy.

Easy8 is countered hard by panther, its slower than 75mm and has no chance to deflect shots while struggling to penetrate. You are hyping this combination so much but in reality its weaker than heavy cav (while requiring tons of fuel).

You know very well they wont fix any of the broken okw stuff. Command panther will stay, just as volks spam, jli and now even double schrek 250mp inf and call in tiger. Usf needs good stuff to counter this.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 10:21 AMVipper

So a "Tank is struggling against a TD" or a "TD doing it's job" and most expensive stock TD one might add. How many times have I read this argument when it comes to Allied TDs.

The chance of Easy8 to penetrate a Panther is not actually that bad.

60%/63%/77%

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 11:11 AMEsxile

Cav on Dodge is all about cheese, or you succeed in wiping stuff fast early game or you end with 2 units that become more of a burden with time.

Panther counters Ez8, nothing wrong here. But Ez8 remains a good thread to Panther if picked out of cover and can defend itself in most situation that doesn't involve you having over extended. Ez8 is a good compromise to deal reasonable infantry damage and not being such an easy target for panther. OKW player is in the same situation here, he can't really go for Pz4 vs your Ez8 thus less AI potential.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 13:49 PMddd

So are you disagreeing that panther counters all medium tanks? Or what were you trying to say here? Becasue i dont get your problem.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 14:08 PMddd

Its as cheesy as soviet clowncar. 200mp unit becoming burden after winning you the early game is good trade. Cav rifles become anything but useless with vet.

Yes, easy8 can threaten panther if axis player reverses into battle with "hold fire" enabled. Panther has better fire rate and is faster, even with rear armor exposed it will win with easy8, and if it somehow got low it can just drive away, not even counting combat blitz here.

You cant honestly compare panther countering easy8 to easy8 "countering" p4. Easy8 counters p4 about as much as p4 counters sherman. Its a standard medium tank ffs.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 14:16 PMVipper

It does but not cost efficiently.

I don't have a problem you seem to have because Easy8 does beat Panther 1vs1.

Not really a Easy8 has better chance to beat both PzIV models although having the same price as the OKW one. Easy8 actually counter PzIVs.

The Panther cost more than Easy8 and has more tech cost thus it a less cost efficient counter.

Bottom line here is that Easy8 is good and cost efficient tank.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 14:42 PMddd

I dont have any problem, i just stated a fact that panther counters easy8.




Easy8 is better in anti tank department, okw p4 is better in anti infantry department, i dont know what is so hard to understand here. You will lose p4 to easy8 only if you missplayed, easy8 is too slow and has too slow reload to chase anything down. Panther on the other hand always penetrates mediums, is super fast and has very high hp and armor. This is how true counter looks like.

Panther cost more because it counters mediums and heavies. It can easily defeat 230 fuel pershing. If thats not cost efficeint i dont know what is.

I dont know what additional tech cost you are talking about, its available in okw tier3 building without any additional requirements.

If easy8 is good and cost efficient tank it will make good addition to new usf commander.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:06 PMVipper

I would suggest reading more carefully, because this is what I have written and you have posted something completely different:
Easy8s is a much more cost efficient counter to PzIV than Panther is to allied mediums.

"i dont know what is so hard to understand here."

And No Easy8 will not make a good addition to the commander it does not fit the Commander thematically and the commander should not have a premium medium and Rocket artillery.

One of abilities will be useless in 1vs1 while the commander will bring too much to the table in 4vs4.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMddd

Easy8 is not a counter to p4 just like p4 is not a counter to 75mm sherman. Read more carefuly.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMddd

Easy8 will make great addition to this commander since it doesnt fit urban assault theme anyway with its current abilities. At this point its about making this commander viable.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMddd

Easy8 is not premium medium tank (that would be panther and comet), its just a standard medium. And its only your imagination that calliope and easy8 cant be put in the same commander, unless you show us someone from relic claiming that.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMddd

Calliope will be useless no matter what, its far worse than katyusha and mattress while costing much more, thats why so many people want easy8, so the commander doesnt rely entirely on trash unit that is calliope.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMddd

Many people in usf commander thread expressed that they would like to see easy8 here. Just because few haters try to make this commander as weak as possible with their "suggestions" doesnt mean that this bad influence should be taken into account.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:53 PMWingZero

Calliope just doesn't fit this commander, especially for its cost and performance. I would rather build a priest instead. Ez-8 definitely needs some love and I think it should be included in this commander.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 14:08 PMddd

Its as cheesy as soviet clowncar. 200mp unit becoming burden after winning you the early game is good trade. Cav rifles become anything but useless with vet.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:49 PMVipper

If it has a better chance to beat than by definition it is a counter. It not a "hard" counter thou.


Now you are simply trolling. The commander has a theme and Easy8 is simply not part of it.


Easy8 is superior to stock Sherman 75mm so by definition it is "premium medium tank".
Panther roles is to counter "Heavy" and "Super heavy" tank, so by definition it is not "premium medium tank".


Calliope performance is completely irrelevant with Easy8 being in the commander. It presence in the commander is relevant with other call-in units thou.


The fact that you perceive people providing their own feedback which is different than your as "hater trying to make the commander weak" is a strong indication that you are biased.

This has debate has started to take a very non productive turn. Bottom line is:
Easy8 is a good cost efficient tank that does not fit the commander thematically.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 16:21 PMddd

You are either convinced your opinion matters more than it realy does or you are simply trolling, thus my previous comment. I dont see you brigading against more and more call in vehicles for axis factions. And call in tanks are breaking this games balance, making teching obsolete, maybe you just dont understand this. Or maybe you like axis factions having this adventage.

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 16:10 PMSmartie

I agree that the E8 should be better but i absolutely dont see no reason to include it in an "Urban Assault" commander. There are several units that would need a buff - for example KT, IS-2, Ostwind - and still dont get touched. Make them better in a seperate "balance patch", so over- underperforming units dont need to be part of a revamp / new commander. These changes could be included in the new mod versions and tested properly.

BAck to E8:
I could even live with the E8 in "Urban Assault" if USF wouldnt have other doctrines which offer premium mediums or the Pershing. USF cant have best light vehicles, super strong elite infantry, the best non doc TD AND better mediums in most doctrines. USF's weakness is and should always be the tank department. If you take that away the faction is way too strong.

About Calliope: He should just be brought to the same performance and cost level as the Wehrmacht's Raketenwerfer then the unit would be very valuable in teamgames.

Jump back to quoted post27 Mar 2019, 13:38 PMddd

P4 armor adventage is superior to easy8 measly 80hp because it lets you avoid potentialy many more shots instead of one guaranteed snare for easy8.

• Snares arnt guaranteed, there is no guarantee you get to 15 range to be fausted.
  
• Sure it could "potentially" deflect more shots, but that isnt the average case. Luckily we have a thing called probability and expected values to determine this. No matter which way you cut it being able to survive an additional tank shot is better that 20 Armour.
  
• More armour is only better vs low pen. To bad TDs are ubiquitous on the allied side, meaning that this armour is useless.
  
  

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 16:30 PMddd

Im sorry but i just want to use different units without being forced into game losing doctrines. This new usf commander proposal is simply boring, if you cant see it i cant help you.