Wehrmacht - Strategic Reserves - Feedback

Sounds a lot like the Großdeutschland division since they were also called the "Fire brigade" for going around and plugging gaps and pushing back Soviet breakthroughs altho they were a Mechanized formation.

That's what I thought of too. But I'll admit I don't know about how often they used satchel charges or how many Panzer IV Hs they had, so I hesitated to call it out as the definitive inspiration.

Yeah, the reserves in a battlefield plan is probably the rare good stuff that you'd rather not lose, so you keep it off the frontline until you can be sure they're needed to be used as effectively as possible...but the reserves before a battlefield plan is the rare bad stuff you're only using at all because you're out of the rest, and you're not expecting too much!

Osttruppen Reserves are the former because you CAN count on Osttruppen

Put in KT for Tiger Ace.

@mod team: There are plenty of threads about the new commanders and its hard to get an overview.
I will try to summarize and update some feedback here. I hope it helps.

Summary of Feedback:

• Breakthrough Equipment:
  - Satchel for Pzgrens should be replaced by a smoke grenade or AT satchel
  - Pios should get standard satchel as part of their upgrade
  
  - PZIV:
  - Upgrade option for Tank commander for better distinction
  
  
• TigerAce:
  - MP cost is too high, should be reduced to 720 MP
  - lower the scatter, unit needs to be more reliable against infantry
  
  
• Some users suggested a big Tiger shift:
  - KT replaces TigerAce in "Strategic Reserves"
  - Reworked TigerAce moved to "Grand offensive"
  
  The idea is interesting imo because...
  ...the KT really needs some love and would give the Wehrmacht a unique unit. And after the great changes to the TigerAce, Elite Doctrin will be a lot more attractive too. Wehrmacht players would win because they could use a proper TigerAce and a KT.
  
  ... it would also help OKW tremendously. The KT in its current state is simply bad. Reworking the unit is long overdue (it doesnt need big changes to be valuable again). Now would be a god time to get this done.
  
  ... the TigerAce would be a lot better than the current Grand Offensive-Tiger. You also doesnt have to care about aura buffs.
  
  
  Updated!
  

@mod team: There are plenty of threads about the new commanders and its hard to get an overview.
I will try to summarize and update some feedback here. I hope it helps.

Summary of Feedback:

• Breakthrough Equipment:
  - Satchel for Pzgrens should be replaced by a smoke grenade or AT satchel
  
  
• TigerAce:
  - MP cost is too high, should be reduced to 720 MP
  - lower the scatter, unit needs to be more reliable against infantry
  
  
• Some users suggested a big Tiger shift:
  - KT replaces TigerAce in "Strategic Reserves"
  - Reworked TigerAce moved to "Grand offensive"
  
  The idea is interesting imo because...
  ...the KT really needs some love and would give the Wehrmacht a unique unit. And after the great changes to the TigerAce, Elite Doctrin will be a lot more attractive too. Wehrmacht players would win because they could use a proper TigerAce and a KT.
  
  ... it would also help OKW tremendously. The KT in its current state is simply bad. Reworking the unit is long overdue (it doesnt need big changes to be valuable again). Now would be a god time to get this done.
  
  ... the TigerAce would be a lot better than the current Grand Offensive-Tiger. You also doesnt have to care about aura buffs.
  
  
  
  

Also the fact that the Soviets now get a forward retreat point with the Airborne while Ost is the only Army left in the mud without one which is a huge point in large team games. That's why I suggested that the recon ability should be replaced by the Forward Supply base and maybe put inside it similar to how the OKW 223 was made.

Also the fact that the Soviets now get a forward retreat point with the Airborne while Ost is the only Army left in the mud without one which is a huge point in large team games. That's why I suggested that the recon ability should be replaced by the Forward Supply base and maybe put inside it similar to how the OKW 223 was made.

Sorry for missing your suggestion and thx for adding!

Maybe balance team can give PIV.H OKW panzer commander upgrade? It will make it special for wehrmacht

@mod team: There are plenty of threads about the new commanders and its hard to get an overview.
I will try to summarize and update some feedback here. I hope it helps.

Summary of Feedback:

• Breakthrough Equipment:
  - Satchel for Pzgrens should be replaced by a smoke grenade or AT satchel
  
  
• TigerAce:
  - MP cost is too high, should be reduced to 720 MP
  - lower the scatter, unit needs to be more reliable against infantry
  
  
• Some users suggested a big Tiger shift:
  - KT replaces TigerAce in "Strategic Reserves"
  - Reworked TigerAce moved to "Grand offensive"
  
  The idea is interesting imo because...
  ...the KT really needs some love and would give the Wehrmacht a unique unit. And after the great changes to the TigerAce, Elite Doctrin will be a lot more attractive too. Wehrmacht players would win because they could use a proper TigerAce and a KT.
  
  ... it would also help OKW tremendously. The KT in its current state is simply bad. Reworking the unit is long overdue (it doesnt need big changes to be valuable again). Now would be a god time to get this done.
  
  ... the TigerAce would be a lot better than the current Grand Offensive-Tiger. You also doesnt have to care about aura buffs.
  
  
  
  

Agreed with the KT-Tiger Ace swap. The King Tiger does not need big changes, thus it shouldn't at a lot of additional work. Furthermore, by moving the Tiger Ace to OKW the team could fix a total of three issues at once. First, it could fix the Tiger Ace generally speaking. Second, it would also help Elite Troop Doctrine a ton. Third, it would give OKW the much desired Tiger I, while at the same time fitting with the theme of Grand Offensive. I mean, who else would lead a Grand Offensive but the best of Tiger Aces?

Likewise, the King Tiger would fit ideally with Strategic Reserves. King Tigers were often used to put out fires (i.e stop breakthroughs). Also, judging by the posts in the balance thread and here it seems clear people actively want a KT Commander for the Wehrmacht.

So why not go for it?

With Ostheer I'd like to see the P4 replaced by the Luchs, buildable from T2 after battle phase 2. Ost already has plenty of tank options, the P4 doesn't seem to offer any additional strategic dimension. Moreover, their largest gap is in aggressive light vehicle play. Perhaps it might even be an idea of bundling radio silence into radio intercept. Together these would present a commander with a strong aggressive playstyle in mind.

Agreed with the KT-Tiger Ace swap. The King Tiger does not need big changes, thus it shouldn't at a lot of additional work. Furthermore, by moving the Tiger Ace to OKW the team could fix a total of three issues at once. First, it could fix the Tiger Ace generally speaking. Second, it would also help Elite Troop Doctrine a ton. Third, it would give OKW the much desired Tiger I, while at the same time fitting with the theme of Grand Offensive. I mean, who else would lead a Grand Offensive but the best of Tiger Aces?
So why not go for it?

I would say the mod team could even fix four issues at once:
The three issues you described and the TigerAce would come significantly later than all other heavy tanks, which would prohibit a new call-in Meta (Commando Panther). You just cannot wait so long for a heavy call-in.

@JB:
The better PZIV give Wehrmacht players finally the tool to deal with T-34/85 or other premium mediums. But the unit could be a little bit more distinctive thats why i suggested an additional upgrade option for the tank.

I would say the mod team could even fix four issues at once:

I'll throw on a fifth. The Tiger Ace comes with its own skin, so you don't have to worry about OKW lacking a Tiger I skin.

I'll throw on a fifth. The Tiger Ace comes with its own skin, so you don't have to worry about OKW lacking a Tiger I skin.

You just fixed the most important problem of OKW Tiger I

Youre right but the KT would have no wehrmacht skins then! Or would it be possible to give him the TigerAce skin?

Youre right but the KT would have no wehrmacht skins then! Or would it be possible to give him the TigerAce skin?

You might be able to get a custom skin made for it, but otherwise just put the KT in Panzergrau like the 221 is. That skin usually fits in quite well.

Are you not moving the goalposts on the design a bit? The KT is a slow boy, and fine for 'pluggin a hole'- if that can said to happen in a usual coh2 sized match, but I feel like the spirit of the commander was in intel and fast/flexible response.

I found the Ace rework suggestion and tie-in to the new commander of interest because of the better adaptability of a Tiger 1. An agile cat like that is also simply more fun to use than a fatcat paperweight KT. The suggestions that the Ace be swapped into OKW for a KT seems like an OKW focused move, rather than a commander focused brainstorm for OST, and the claim that elite troops doc will benefit is likewise bizarre- it already will with the mod patch version ace as it is.

IMO, two things for this commander: Radio should essentially stay, and a workaround implemented if code problems exist. And Ace should stay, following the idea that the commander is a flexible, if reactionary, presence on the field. Tiger 1 speed screams firefighter brigade thematically more so than KT's approach to frontline/backline issues.

EDIT: Smartie reminded me of the actual term... swapped recon for radio. Derp.

Are you not moving the goalposts on the design a bit? The KT is a slow boy, and fine for 'pluggin a hole'- if that can said to happen in a usual coh2 sized match, but I feel like the spirit of the commander was in intel and fast/flexible response.

[...

IMO, two things for this commander: Recon should essentially stay, and a workaround implemented if code problems exist. And Ace should stay, following the idea that the commander is a flexible, if reactionary, presence on the field. Tiger 1 speed screams firefighter brigade thematically more so than KT's approach to frontline/backline issues.

To be honest you essentially summed up how i feel about this doctrine. I would also prefer TIgerAce over KT because of the reasons you descriped. But its only fair to also point point out the advantages of the proposed swap.

About "Radio": I played some games over the weekend and find this ability extremely helpful. If the mod team needs to replace it.... than we should get "Early Warning flares" for radio. Strong recon for strong recon.
But lets hope Radio can stay.

Actually, while I have you here Smartie, can you share your thoughts about the Panzer IV J as implemented? I just don't understand it's place in this commander. What is it meant to offer thematically?

Actually, while I have you here Smartie, can you share your thoughts about the Panzer IV J as implemented? I just don't understand it's place in this commander. What is it meant to offer thematically?

PZIV was the "working horse" of german armor, the most used and produced tank in the war. The better version should reflect that the improved version was the standard tank on the eastern front.

But to be honest i did include it not so much because of theme reasons but for gameplay reasons. I know, its not a sex pick, but i find the better armored PZIV extremely helpful. Wehrmacht have to face in 8 of 10 games against soviets T34-85 which are superior to your own PZIV, USF can field 76mm shermans / E8 - both are better than your standard PIV. Thats wyh people usually skip T3 these days and build Brumm / Panther.

BTW: Welcome to the forum! Keep on giving feedback and ask critical question. We need that to make this commander as good as possible.

Thanks.

Then that seems like a dangerous fix. We want to avoid a Spec Ops scenario with any of these new commanders.

I view commander abilities as either increases in micro- or decreases in micro. In this case, I would breakdown this new commander as: Assgren (+ Micro), Radio (- Micro), PZIV (- Micro), Breakthrough Equipment (+ Micro), Ace (+ Micro).

If the PVIV J replacement in this commander is a bandaid fix for medium tank play, then that affects the whole faction. I'm not surprised by your initial panzer design suggestion, but I am surprised the devs chose to stick with this aspect of it.

I can't say where to go from here thematically, or for the health of the faction, but if the PZIV J were to be replaced, I would say replace it with something that adds micro (adds to the difficulty) of this commander. Currently the whole thing is very sexy, and I'll bet people will make it a staple- devs should throw a spanner into the works at this early stage so it's not too comfortable a pick. Radio is the key ease-of-life improvement to this pick IMO.