Elefant: To many disadvantages

Hi there,

I´m experiencing serious problems with the Elefant every round. The times it has cost me the game are way more than those times it actually proofed useful. I´m by far no noob and know how to use it: A long range, rather immobile, second line, tank-sniper that has to be supported. Yet, even when using it this way it has seldom payed off. Usually it ends up - even after intense fighting - with a low kill count of which most are lucky infantry snipes.

The problems I see with it is that a lot of drawbacks are combined with this unit and outweight the pros of the unit.

Pros:
- Long gun range
- Long view range
- Good frontal armor
- Large amount of health
- Deals huge damage with a hit

Cons:
- Doctrinal
- Slow reload time (8.55sec), almost as slow as the ISU-152 (10sec)!
- Bad mobility:
-->Very slow speed
--> Very slow turning speed (slowest in the game)
--> Bad acceleration
--> When AT-naded, mined, rammed it is effectively immobilized
- Bad accuracy on long range
- Lowest AOE for the shells in the game (which lets it suck versus infantry)
- Very high cost, popcap and upkeep (640mp, 260 fuel)

The problem I see is that it´s so easily avoided. It can sit at one spot and try to snipe some vehicle. After that any competent player will jsut avoid this spot and focus on the other 2/3rd of the map. Getting the Elefant there is a huge gamble.

Even when sitting in its spot supported by a lot of units, it doesn´t do it´s job. A lot of the shots miss and infantry is immune to it. I would prefer an occasional snipe like with the SU-85 but right now you can totally ignore it and walk up to it. I know it´s not supposed to counter infantry but what we have now is a bit over the top.

Added to that the reload on the 88mm is ridiculous. Why does it take so long? The gun isn´t a howitzer. By the time the Elefant is ready for the next shot - and if that has even hit - the enemy has driven away his vehicle.

The worst thing is it´s mobility. It shouldn´t be very mobile, i know. But it will get engine damaged. And then it´s immobile, because that can´t be called movement if it manages to drive 1 meter every 5 seconds. It is so immobile anyways that two T-34s can just drive up to it and kill it. Of course I support the Elefant but at this cost there´s usually not more available than one Pak and some Grens with Fausts.

I really think the Elefant needs at least a buff to its reload speed and accuracy if it stays this slow and cumbersome.

Are you talking 1v1 or 2v2?
Because saving up for it is a very bad idea in 1v1, plus the maps are too small for the elephant to excel. But you don't even need untill lategame Soviet T4 on langres.
But 2v2?
Oh boy this thing is amazing, I would say Germans don't stand much of chance without it on most maps late game.

And you say it doesn't see any action? Then move up your infantry to take the uncontested areas. Sometimes a deterrent is more effective because of the shock effect.

Elephant + Ostwind = Most deadly combination.
I dont know how you let your elephant get atnaded, your position must be very bad or you had no scouting (which is weird with the amazing LoS of the elephant, so positioning)

i am not sure how TC use his elephant, but for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 that elefant turn my game table many times already, all elefant need is some infantry like a pgren or a lmg gren at front as spotter(if you use the commander have scope you don't need spotter just have a gren there to slow enemy tanks) and place 2-4 AT mines on the roads to protect its rear that is it, also always target T34 first since it can ram, as Sarantini said if u put a ostwind next to it, it doesn't fear anything, maybe got overwhelm by many enemy tanks, but if you didn't realized enemy have a large tank force going for your elefant is your fault.

in 2v2, elefant is invincible,I mean it, invincible

See, this is the disparity between 1v1 and team games - certain units/commanders are not very viable in the former while being extremely effective in the latter due to resources not being shared (so one guy can just save up for the big guns).

The Jaeger Armour commander is not a good choice 1v1 due to resource constraints but is a godly choice in 2v2+ due to those constraints being negated by your teammates.

Personally, I don't use it ever since it's not very effective when I'm solo'ing and pretty unfair when I'm duo'ing.

The Elefant makes a huge impact on the field. All you need to do is support it and it will win games. The only way to reliability take it out is to divert huge amounts of forces to kill it, meaning, that if they are going through the trouble of trying to counter it, then they are already winning or that gives you an opportunity to make a huge comeback.

Hi there,

I´m experiencing serious problems with the Elefant every round. The times it has cost me the game are way more than those times it actually proofed useful. I´m by far no noob and know how to use it: A long range, rather immobile, second line, tank-sniper that has to be supported. Yet, even when using it this way it has seldom payed off. Usually it ends up - even after intense fighting - with a low kill count of which most are lucky infantry snipes.

That's because no one, unless they are suffering from heat stroke, will come near that thing with armor units.

It seems you are using it defensively, try using it offensively. It's a bully unit, If you play as Soviet you wanna stay away from it. It will cause massive damage to your armor force even to attempt to engage it, let alone kill the damn thing. Inf can't do shit to it, and even if it has damaged engine, you still have to take huge losses to attempt to kill it (providing it is supported)

Its a bit like a bear coming to take carcass from wolves

Will it pay of in 1v1? its a late unit and good players will try to avoid it. Run the VP down. Not as effective as is in 2v2 and up

Elefante ♥

I wouldnt use it for 1v1 but for anything above 2v2 its great.
Think of it like a big mobile pak.

In 1v1 you can use it to siege the enemy base.

Elephant + Ostwind = Most deadly combination.
I dont know how you let your elephant get atnaded, your position must be very bad or you had no scouting (which is weird with the amazing LoS of the elephant, so positioning)

This so many times.

Also wondering if you would now talk 1vs1 because there I also agree that it's quite pointless. I haven't really been afraid of Elephants before until one game. This was in 2vs2 game and they managed to get Elephant in good positions in cut off point so they basically ruled two VPs. There was also few vet ostwinds. Basically they had difficulties to capture that point as well (as we did) but on the long run the Elephant just had to sit back and relax since they had the VP about 60% of time. They knew we needed to push and oh boy when that happened. We stood no chance. Sadly I don't have record anymore and thinking back we could have had other options (push to their base to create distraction) but anyway. It is a beast when played right.

-E- Bottom line, see no point to AT ALL to buff that beast.

You forgot to mention that it kills SU-85s in 2 shots

Yep. Doesn't the elephant also have the same Ram and AT grenade resistance from heavy armor?

I know it also has pretty good accuracy against AT guns.

What else is there to counter? People say Arty works, but let's be honest, arty is countered just by line of sight and being at 5CP on most German commanders. By the time an Elephant is out, you've got what you need to counter arty.

Well, all I have to say is the elephant is a very specific unit and is only good at destroying tanks... and I mean just tanks. It's really designed to only be good vs tanks and that's about it, if you're facing a bunch of tanks, that should be the reason you choose that doctrine, right? If you have a problem with it being too slow then you may want to consider not using it. It's a slow and steady pak43 gun, it's job is to basically lock down an area and might I remind you it's already the best AT weapon in the game.

It's not a main battle tank, but a sniper. Also, consider this: a sniper alone in a battlefield isn't that effective, it's a support unit right? You cannot have a build of 100% snipers in this game (don't mention SSSSS please lol). Your snipers need grens and machine guns to stop other infantry. So what i'm trying to say is that you may need to followup on the damage you deal with other units. If you hit a t34 for example then send in a shrek squad to finish it off. Good players aren't going to just sit there and let you do damage to their units. Maybe try to bait tanks into the elephant? Lay some tellers at roads and lay ambushes with shreked pgrens. There's tons of options to help make your elephant scary and a lot more effective.

I find the Elephant extremely useful. You have to use it properly though. It's range is a HUGE - just for the sake of comparison, a Panther has 50 range, an SU-85 has 60, an Elephant has 100.

The fact that it is a huge and expensive tank might induce people to use it as a "spearhead" unit in your attack formation. This is very very wrong. The Elephant has to be kept behind your line. It will shoot from a huge distance, and make a lot of damage. It's DPS (including accuracy) at range 100 is the exact same DPS of an SU-85 at range 60.

Most of the cons you mentioned are not applicable if you use it right - that is, behind your line. At this position it's slow speed doesn't really matter, as well as turret speed, since at long range the turret doesn't need to turn much. Not having AOE is totally not applicable, as this is an anti-tank unit by design.

And on top of all that, it's a hard counter to SU-85 spam.

I think the Elephant is a spot on example of balanced unit. It has a purpose, it's awesome for it, but it doesn't do what it wasn't designed to do.

New hull down + Elefant = looooooool. 125 range! x2 SU85! 2 second faster firing! EVEN MOAR ARMOR.

Of course that's only practical in rare circumstances, but still funny nevertheless. Elefant is generally fine. Maaaaybe a tiny rotation speed boost because even trying to acquire targets in optimal setup its painful to watch, but really he's fine.