Range of super heavy tanks

I would like to ask you guys what do you think of the range of the Elephant and ISU 152. In my opinion the range is to great especially in 1v1 on maps that are open without much structures like Langres. Elephant or ISU can just sit almost in the base and pick targets and camp all the game. Because of their great range you cant flank them and really cant do much about them the whole game. I know you are probably sick of comparison with vCOH but IMO King Tiger is a perfect example of how should super heavy tank be, He was crazy durable but you couldn't just keep him near base, you would have to get in fights and absorb some punishment and you would have to support him or you would louse him. Another thing is the Elephant and ISU have much greater range that AT guns so they can just snipe them also.

Any thoughts on the matter? In your opinion does Elephant and ISU have excessive range or are you satisfied with it?

The point is, that their superior range is everything that makes them viable. They also cost a shitload of resources and come to the game very late.

So I think it their range advantage is completely justified.

The point is, that their superior range is everything that makes them viable. They also cost a shitload of resources and come to the game very late.

So I think it their range advantage is completely justified.

I wouldn't necessary agree with you on this point. They have a lot of advantages beside range. I am using the spreadsheet made by Endeav for numbers so plsc correct me if they are wrong.

Elephant: cost 640MP 240F /damage 320 /penetration 170 /max. range 100 /speed 2.7 /acc 1
Tigar: cost 720MP 200F /damage 160 /penetration 154 /max. range 40 /speed 3.9 /acc 1.8

Other stats are in the spreadsheet. With this numbers I would gladly give it a bit more mobility in exchange for this range (2.5 times grater than tiger is a bit crazy IMO). ISU is not that OP because it has weaker armor and costs more, but just a bit smaller range would be good, at least IMO.

endeav is always taking credit for my work

really minor problem, but for the sake of being accurate, it looks like you pulled the elefants cost incorrectly from our sheet. elefant costs 260 fuel.

i think these tanks need their range though. the elefant would need a lot more than "a bit more mobility" if its going to fight up close. its range, damage and front armor are just about the only things the elefant has going for it. its incredibly slow moving, has the same penetration as a panther, shoots slower than any german tank, and ties with a panther for the worst AI (highest scatter and smallest AOE). also, the elefant will practically never hit anything other than vehicles, so the risk of it sniping an AT gun is negligible. now that panthers fuel cost has been reduced, if i can afford the mp, id rather have 2 panthers unless the soviets are really spamming su85s.

honestly i have more issues fighting the isu than the elefant. its a much more all around tank. it will wipe infantry squads before you even know its there and can hold its own against anything less than a panther. also, having less armor will rarely be an issue if the player uses it properly. excluding rotation, its about as maneuverable as a tiger. combine that with its 100 range and it can easily back away from most fights unless its ambushed.

so, to answer your question, i think their range is ok. thats not to say their range couldnt be changed at some point, but it would require a lot more changes than just range. i think both tanks would need to be redesigned if their range were reduced. in fact, the is2 is pretty much a turreted short range isu at this point, so the isu wouldnt really have a role if it lost its range.

I wouldn't necessary agree with you on this point. They have a lot of advantages beside range. I am using the spreadsheet made by Endeav for numbers so plsc correct me if they are wrong.

Elephant: cost 640MP 240F /damage 320 /penetration 170 /max. range 100 /speed 2.7 /acc 1
Tigar: cost 720MP 200F /damage 160 /penetration 154 /max. range 40 /speed 3.9 /acc 1.8

Other stats are in the spreadsheet. With this numbers I would gladly give it a bit more mobility in exchange for this range (2.5 times grater than tiger is a bit crazy IMO). ISU is not that OP because it has weaker armor and costs more, but just a bit smaller range would be good, at least IMO.

I guess cutting their range in sacrifice for mobility would make them completely overpowered. It would probably just turn them in some sort of super call-in, prepatch Su-85's.

Remember that you can negate their superior range with smoke and/or the clever use of truesight.