Rearranging existing doctrines

Considering the complaints about units exclusive to just a single DLC commander, why not shuffle around units and abilities to other, currently less desirable commanders in order to
a)make them more viable, such as the underwhelming Blitzkrieg and Infantry doctrines available to the Wehrmacht and
b)to reduce unhappiness regarding CE buyers not getting any of the new units and abilities.

Here's the proposal:

Black dots indicate commanders that aren't free.

This way, there are no single abilities/units that are not available at all to CE buyers, and only four -Redistributable Resources, For Mother Russia, Booby Traps, and the B4 203mm howitzer- not available to anyone buying the stock edition of the game.

• German Infantry was pretty poor and many abilities didn't fit with the theme. Hence, the addition of AGrens and the trench. Every single German call-in infantry should be available to this doctrine now. The Opel was added to strengthen the late game without resorting to call-in tanks or off-maps.
  

• Storm Doctrine got Resource redistribution to synergize with the munition-hungry abilities it has, and lost Ambush Camoflage due to it not fitting with tactical movement well.
  

• Blitzkrieg had abilities that didn't fit it very well either- Panzer Tactician and Command tank aren't offensive weapons. Hence the addition of the call-in halftrack and assault gun.
  

• Festung support got the Ostruppen call-in, to differentiate it from the many other doctrines that already use Relief Infantry.
  

• The NKVD doctrine wasn't very impressive, and conscript replacement didn't fit it very well. Forward HQs might strengthen this (imo) rather weak doctrine.
  

• For Mother Russia, I think, fits the bill as something that supports conscripts. Hence the Conscript Support Doctrine.
  

• The SCA army might arguably be too powerful with Guards + the light AT gun, recon, and the KV1- letting the Soviets go T1-T4 with call-in anti tank early and call in anti-infantry vehicles late. But considering how good the other free doctrine the Soviets received was, the Soviet Shock army, this might be on par.
  

• And finally there's Terror. Booby Traps and the one-shot-one-kill-anything B4 howitzer are undeniably terror weapons.
  

Any thoughts?

Credits to Leiwounion for his commander table used to make this.

yeai already see this, redistribute resources and stuka xD

Good changes, these are far better than the ones we have currently. Some points:
German infantry:
G43 + assgrens seems a bit over the top. With the current muni cost of agrens I don't think they will be that popular. Maybe remove G43 and give camo. (This also makes sense since it's a ToW doctrine and G43 are, well, from 1943)

Storm
The revised Storm is still a very weird combination of abilities, slightly better than the current one I would say but I find them all sub-par abilities. Most of the stuff doesn't sound very "storm" - like . It's more a stealth one instead of storm.

Blitzkrieg
Redistribute resources, why didn't you add this to the blitzkrieg one?
Seems like the perfect doctrine for it. I would get rid of the stug then.

NKVD
Partisans would be perfect for this doctrine instead of FHQ, I would give FHQ to the next commander:

Conscript support
Add FHQ and remove one of the abilities. I don't know which one though. Maybe for mother russia and give it a not listed doctrine.

The revised Storm is still a very weird combination of abilities, slightly better than the current one I would say but I find them all sub-par abilities. Most of the stuff doesn't sound very "storm". It's more a stealth one instead of storm.

I don't know- I thought the entire idea of the Storm doctrine was to be the sneaky one. AT mines, ambush infantry, and smoke for T2 halftrack + panzerschreck based play, with redistributable resources to fund it and a bombing run to cap it off and destroy the enemy base Barton style.

German infantry:
G43 + assgrens seems a bit over the top. With the current muni cost of agrens I don't think they will be that popular. Maybe remove G43 and give camo. (This also makes sense since it's a ToW doctrine and G43 are, well, from 1943)

True, AGrens and G43s sort of infringe on each other's niche. Maybe Tactical Movement or Camo as you suggested would be better.

NKVD
Partisans would be perfect for this doctrine instead of FHQ, I would give FHQ to the next commander:
Conscript support
Add FHQ and remove one of the abilities. I don't know which one though. Maybe for mother russia and give it a not listed doctrine.

Maybe For Mother Russia would better fit in the NKVD doctrine- it seems like the sort of thing NKVD commissars would inspire their men to do. Partisans aren't ingame yet (if at all), so we can't count on that. But NKVD does need something good, as radio intercepts are the only strong point of the doctrine currently. FMR isn't an exceptional ability, especially for it's cost.
Removing FMR from Conscript Support would leave it as an ability exclusive to the Counterattack doctrine, which wouldn't be desirable.

+1

It may need some tweaking here and there but i really like the general idea.

this guy is genius, relic please hire. i would buy commander made by him. some of them might need tweaking. but they certainly do provide varied strategies. i liked how you fixed the russian nkvd and the german infantry commanders and certainly each and everyone lives up to its name.

storm storms
blitz blitz
nkvd nkvds
combined arms combine.
support suports.
infantry infantys
yadda yadda

The commander System Of CoH2 is really stupid.There are many useless commanders that nobody uses.I have never seen anybody using the Terror or NKVD commander.

CoH2 has too many commanders that nobody uses.That happens if you create a game with 1000 of commanders it always end up People using always the same 3-4 best commanders.

CoH0 had a much better doctrine System.And its getting worse cause relic will add more useless dlc commanders that nobody will use.

Yeah I quite like the changes you made to everything, except the Storm doctrine. Tactical Movement is very important for that ambush style of play I think, esepcially when your going for T2 shreck, mine and pak40 based AT.

Tactical Movement has won me a lot of games with that ability and I believe it would be sad to see it go from an clearly underappreicated doctrine.

Even the leFH 18 howitzer complements well with mid-late game Riegels and completely prevents vehicle repair on over commited vehicles, but I suppose it fits in least with the 'Storm' mindset.

Update-(Storm) Ambush Camo replaced by Tactical Movement
(Infantry) G43s replaced by Opel Blitz

Yeah I quite like the changes you made to everything, except the Storm doctrine. Tactical Movement is very important for that ambush style of play I think, esepcially when your going for T2 shreck, mine and pak40 based AT.

Tactical Movement has won me a lot of games with that ability and I believe it would be sad to see it go from an clearly underappreicated doctrine.

That's a good point, especially after that game you streamed with the tactical movement pgrens and the 100 kill sniper. Never realized the potential of that ability.

Ambush camo was dropped from Storm, as it doesn't really synergize that well with the rest of the doctrine. Sure, panzershrecks in camo + riegels might be nice in theory, but ambush camo just feels lackluster.

As for the Infantry doctrine, it was (very correctly) pointed out that

G43 + assgrens seems a bit over the top

. G43s and AGrens would infringe on each other's niche, as more Agrens means 1. Less Grenadiers and 2. Less munitions to upgrade the Grenadiers. Vice versa applies as well. While Tactical Movement or Ambush Camo would fit the Infantry-aspect of the doctrine well, Tactical Movement already features in four or five other doctrines, and Ambush camo just isn't worth the munitions afaik. Hence, the Opel Blitz- a unit that is exclusive to Assault Support only right now- to add a bit of long-term endgame strength to the doctrine.

Redistribute resources, why didn't you add this to the blitzkrieg one?
Seems like the perfect doctrine for it. I would get rid of the stug then.

Blitzkrieg brings to mind the image of mechanized infantry and assault guns moving fast and working in a combined-arms manner, hence the Stug and halftrack call-ins. Adding redistribute resources to two doctrines other than the new DLC one might be excessive as well.

Really good suggestions. Relic should definitely let the players balance out the commanders since they themselves clearly don't know what they're doing, but we know it's not going to happen. "Mechanized Assault" (Infantry, Light Vehicles, Medium Vehicles, Heavy Vehicles, Artillery) should have been called "Optional Structures" with artillery as well for good measure.

Really good suggestions. Relic should definitely let the players balance out the commanders since they themselves clearly don't know what they're doing, but we know it's not going to happen. "Mechanized Assault" (Infantry, Light Vehicles, Medium Vehicles, Heavy Vehicles, Artillery) should have been called "Optional Structures" with artillery as well for good measure.

Relief is so useless at 3cp. Who needs ostruppen that late, and for 120 munis while trying to purposely lose infantry (rip off)?

Why not just replace it with ostruppen call in.

Relief is so useless at 3cp. Who needs ostruppen that late, and for 120 munis while trying to purposely lose infantry (rip off)?

Why not just replace it with ostruppen call in.

Granted, Relief infantry isn't nearly as good as the Ostruppen call-in. But replacing Relief with Ostruppen in the Infantry doctrine would mean every single doctrinal ability would be available at 1CP, with no later-game unlocks, and that you'd have ostruppen and Agrens in the same doctrine. I'm not sure of the ramifications of having both call-in infantry, but there's probably a way to abuse this to great effect- hence relief infantry rather than ostruppen call-ins.

One thing though: I think it's a mistake not to give conscript support an AT. A whole doctrine with no AT in it is not going to be viable. Remember that the german side will always use vehicles and tanks.

One thing though: I think it's a mistake not to give conscript support an AT. A whole doctrine with no AT in it is not going to be viable. Remember that the german side will always use vehicles and tanks.

Shock Motor, Anti-Infantry, NKVD, Shock Army and Terror have no doctrinal anti-tank assets early on or at all either. No doctrinal guards, mark vehicle, camoflauge AT guns, call-in tanks, or call in AT guns just means you have to make do with AT guns or tank destroyers.

Personally I use Shock Army or Shock Rifle Frontline in nearly all my games, and AT guns + AT nades + Mines tend to work for me without doctrinal assistance. If scout cars/flamer halftracks are giving me problems then I fall back to the perennial Guards Rifle Combined Arms. You can't expect every doctrine to have the counter to everything, else people would just choose one doctrine over all others all the time.

yeah, cant have all docs having ostruppen call in.

But relief should still probably be 1 cp, and be 40 munis only. Ost really need veterancy, and are mostly useful early game. Keep in mind that they redesigned the unit recently.

At this point with your ideas, why not just make commanders CUSTOMIZABLE!? you are given a set "point system" similar to COD:Black Ops2.
Thank being said, parameters as not having "4 (1)CP costed call ins" can't be possible or you can't have Guards & Shocktroops in the same 'Commander'. (for example: I feel your most recent 'german inf.' commander is WAYYYYYYYY too powerful early game and WAYYYYYY too weak late game.)

However, if you make the commander customizable, you can take the "risk" of creating your commander to be good early and bad late or vice-versa.

This will never happen because YOU PEOPLE buy DLC comamnders and relic can charge them at rediculous prices and make a boat-load of money

But, if they do implement that, now they can charge you for abilities! DO-HO-HO-HO *OldmenfromJimHensonMuppet'sLaugh*

Good idea. I think custom commanders would work, at that point Relic would have to balance out the abilities themselves as opposed to the commanders as a whole which could be easier/harder depending on how you look at it. Than most people would build their own three; early, mid and late game commander variations depending on their play style or more likely depending on someone else "unbeatable" online strategy they're trying to copy. But like you mentioned at this point it won't happen because of how profitable the current commander system is for them... the only way they would go with it is if we convinced them we'd also be willing to pay $5 per any new ability (which I'm sure tons of people would be ok with that as well). "Now you can get a single commander ability ($5) or buy all five in a bundle and save 10% (only $22.50)!"