T34/85

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkGsyIHzICs
One of the latest propaganda casts. Really showed how bad they are. Couldn't even kill a P4 from behind and they are so expensive that you can't even replace them if one goes down.

it was the pak

Since T-34/85s hit the fielded later than a PZIV, and the cost of 260fuel makes it can be as late as end-game heavy tanks. I think it's necessary to do a T-34/85 vs. Panther series.

Panther cost (600MP/130FU)
Armor 270(F), 960HP, 160damge/hit, 170 penetration
Reload+Aim=6.45+0.125=6.575sec
Scatter 6.0 AOE 0.5
Main Gun Range 50
speed max:5.5
Have a Turret Machine gun upgrade for AA purpose and bonus to AI



T-34/85 cost (360MP/130FU but you must pay 720/260 for call-in)
Armor 124(F), 800HP, 160damage/hit, 110 penetration
Reload+Aim=8.45+0.125=8.575sec
Scatter 2.6, AOE 2.5
Main gun Range 40
speed max: 5.3

Panther penetrating T-34/85: 124/170=100%
T-34/85 penetrating Panther: 110/270=40.7407%

Panther finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*6.575/(100%)=32.875sec
T-34/85 finishing off a Panther: (960/160)*8.575/(40.7407)=126.286sec (BOOM!)


Though T-34/85 have better AI at main gun, but the turret machine gun of a Panther can compensate this disadvantage a little bit, and notice that Panther is slightly fast than T-34/85. And, T-34/85 hits the field can be as late as a Panther or even later than a Panther.

FULL-RETARDED vehicle balancing.

i think the t3485s would only pay off if the player wants to skip buildings. other than that they are just a waste. only works for 1v1s if you can catch your opponent off guard with t3485s, but there are no other reason to get it.

it's only good for one thing in 1v1 and that is because you get to skip buildings but in 2v2s, 3v3s, 4v4s they are just a waste, because if you are planning to call in pairs after pairs of them you might as well get a building and build cheaper t34s because they are more cost effective. they are just meant to catch the opponent off guard if you made them fast enough but if that fails it's starts to get less cost effective the more you call in.

all this balancing around 1v1s is shit. it's shit balance for 1v1s and even more shit balance for everything else.

This is a Simple way to solve this, you can only field a T-34/85 and other tanks only if you build a T3 or T4 building.

Same works for Ostheer, can only filed tank only if you build T3 Or reach the battle phase of T4.

all i know is that i can make then work somehow. is the unit ok? yes.

should it be cheaper? yes!

I think if nothing is done to fix the T-34/85s the second best thing to do would be to remove them and either A. Give the option of a universal upgrade for all T-34s to get upgraded with a better turret that does better penetration then a t-34/85, for around 50-100 fuel I'd say. OR B. Give the option of this upgrade in a doctrine (Make it like 3 CPs).

Since T-34/85s hit the filed later than a PZIV, and even a Panther can sometimes show up earlier than a T-34/85. I think it's necessary to do a T-34/85 vs. Panther series.

Panther cost (600MP/130FU)
Armor 270(F), 960HP, 160damge/hit, 170 penetration
Reload+Aim=6.45+0.125=6.575sec
Scatter 6.0 AOE 0.5
speed max:5.5
Have a Turret Machine gun upgrade for AA purpose and bonus to AI



T-34/85 cost (360MP/130FU but you must pay 720/260 for call-in)
Armor 124(F), 800HP, 160damage/hit, 110 penetration
Reload+Aim=8.45+0.125=8.575sec
Scatter 2.6, AOE 2.5
speed max: 5.3

Panther penetrating T-34/85: 124/170=100%
T-34/85 penetrating Panther: 110/270=40.7407%

Panther finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*6.575/(100%)=32.875sec
T-34/85 finishing off a Panther: (960/160)*8.575/(40.7407)=126.286sec (BOOM!)


Though T-34/85 have better AI at main gun, but the turret machine gun of a Panther can compensate this disadvantage a little bit, and notice that Panther is slightly fast than T-34/85. And, T-34/85 hits the field can be as late as a Panther or even later than a Panther.

FULL-RETARDED vehicle balancing.

Are you fucking kidding me? You are comparing the hard counter to tanks (Panther)with the T-34/85. As if that wasn´t enough you are comparing Panther and T-34/85 in a frontal slugout. If the Panther didn´t dominate in this aspect what should it do? It´s like complaining that a Panzer IV can´t beat a Zis while parking in front of it.

Be glad that the T-34 even has a chance of penetrating the Panthers front, which is ridiculously enough.

Since T-34/85s hit the filed later than a PZIV, and even a Panther can sometimes show up earlier than a T-34/85. I think it's necessary to do a T-34/85 vs. Panther series.

Panther cost (600MP/130FU)
Armor 270(F), 960HP, 160damge/hit, 170 penetration
Reload+Aim=6.45+0.125=6.575sec
Scatter 6.0 AOE 0.5
speed max:5.5
Have a Turret Machine gun upgrade for AA purpose and bonus to AI



T-34/85 cost (360MP/130FU but you must pay 720/260 for call-in)
Armor 124(F), 800HP, 160damage/hit, 110 penetration
Reload+Aim=8.45+0.125=8.575sec
Scatter 2.6, AOE 2.5
speed max: 5.3

Panther penetrating T-34/85: 124/170=100%
T-34/85 penetrating Panther: 110/270=40.7407%

Panther finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*6.575/(100%)=32.875sec
T-34/85 finishing off a Panther: (960/160)*8.575/(40.7407)=126.286sec (BOOM!)


Though T-34/85 have better AI at main gun, but the turret machine gun of a Panther can compensate this disadvantage a little bit, and notice that Panther is slightly fast than T-34/85. And, T-34/85 hits the field can be as late as a Panther or even later than a Panther.

FULL-RETARDED vehicle balancing.

You can't really ignore the fact that call-in tanks have zero tech requirement. If the panther was a call-in tank at 5cp for the same cost, that would be just ridiculously OP since teching to T4 is prohibitively expensive normally.

That said, I would agree with a small buff to the T34-85, probably increase its penetration to 130 from 110 or increase its ROF.

Are you fucking kidding me? You are comparing the hard counter to tanks (Panther)with the T-34/85. As if that wasn´t enough you are comparing Panther and T-34/85 in a frontal slugout. If the Panther didn´t dominate in this aspect what should it do? It´s like complaining that a Panzer IV can´t beat a Zis while parking in front of it.

Be glad that the T-34 even has a chance of penetrating the Panthers front, which is ridiculously enough.

The t34/85 should not cost more than a panther, it is not worth the performance for such a ridiculous price.

Are you fucking kidding me? You are comparing the hard counter to tanks (Panther)with the T-34/85. As if that wasn´t enough you are comparing Panther and T-34/85 in a frontal slugout. If the Panther didn´t dominate in this aspect what should it do? It´s like complaining that a Panzer IV can´t beat a Zis while parking in front of it.

Be glad that the T-34 even has a chance of penetrating the Panthers front, which is ridiculously enough.

what he means is that economicaly speaking t34|86 hit the field at the same time that the tiger if the fuels have been contested. it happens to me. we both get to call an IS2 and a tiger before the t34/86 just because it fuel cost is so high that i get to the next call in before i get to call them.

The t34/85 should not cost more than a panther, it is not worth the performance for such a ridiculous price.

OR the panther/IS2 should cost more than the t34/85. both options have diferent outcomes.

T-34/76 vs. PZIV added to the original comparison

PZIV finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*5.825/(88.7097%)=32.8318sec

PZIV finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*5.825/(95.6522%)=24.3591sec

T-34/85 finishing off a PZIV: (640/160)*8.575/(68.75%)=49.8909sec(WTF?)

T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec

see why the T-34/85 is the top 1 POS of all time

I find the t34 85 only useful in games so intense I must skip t3 and focus on working with infantry. In such games, I often go 3 cons, 1 m3, eng flamer, 1 sniper, 1 heavy mortar, 2 guards. So there isn't even time to spare the engineers to build a second building (t3). That's where calling in the t34 85 becomes useful, but even then its performance against other tanks is disappointing.

As mentioned by others, penetration need to be increased on this tank.

I too would like to see the t-34-85 as a universal upgrade to t-34's. Maybe 80 fuel and 200 mp or something within that range.

relic have previously stated that they dont want to change this ability drasticaly so i think the most likely feature is that its either buffed/or reduced in price.

I too would like to see the t-34-85 as a universal upgrade to t-34's. Maybe 80 fuel and 200 mp or something within that range.

The T-34/76 can do almost as same as 98% DPS against a PZIV, there's no point to make it a Upgrade-able unit if it stats stay like this.
My suggestion is:

Make it single call-in Or for 1v1 competitive purpose,make it buildable in T3 or T4 factories after it gets unlock.

Reload reuce form 8.45 to 6
(no reason make it highest reloading time among the guns with 160 alpha damage)

Armor increase from 124 to 180(on par with PZIV)

Penetration rise from 110 to 140~150
(85mm zis-53 or D-5T should be better than the PZIV)

Cost from 720/260FUEL double call-in become 400/125FUEL single call-in or buildable in either T3 and T4.

Scatter increase from 2.6 to 9.5

To make it more AT like

Just in case if someone ask why the armor is slightly better for its hull only has 45mm armor, well it's 100~110mm turret front armor and hull is 45mm 60° sloped from vertical=45/cos60=90mm VS PZIV 80mm maxium)

The T-34/76 can do almost as same as 98% DPS against a PZIV, there's no point to make it a Upgrade-able unit if it stats stay like this.
My suggestion is:

Make it single call-in Or for 1v1 competitive purpose,make it buildable in T3 or T4 factories after it gets unlock.

Reload reuce form 8.45 to 6
(no reason make it highest reloading time among the guns with 160 alpha damage)

Armor increase from 124 to 170(on par with PZIV)

Penetration rise from 110 to 130~150
(85mm zis-53 or D-5T should be better than the PZIV)

Cost from 720/260FUEL double call-in become 400/125FUEL single call-in or buildable in either T3 and T4.

Just in case if someone ask why the armor is slightly better for its hull only has 45mm armor, well it's 100~110mm turret front armor and hull is 45mm 60° sloped from vertical=45/cos60=90mm VS PZIV 80mm maxium)

All this together is too much. Why are you bringing realistic stuff in while at the same time demanding a better penetration. The Panthers frontal armor was impervious to the 85mm. Increased penetration on the T-34/85 would make the Panther much more useless. It´s an annoyance already that Panthers get defeated frontally by regular tanks.

Also Panzer IVs remained slightly better than the T-34/85s because of other stuff (optics, crews, radios, better protection vs handheld anti tank), that I don´t think the T-34 should be better. The 85mm actually had about the same penetration capabilities as the 75mm/L48.

The reload could be decreased to 6-7 seconds and the fuel costs need to be decreased. Also I would prefer it to be non doctrinal and an upgrade. But no bigger performance boost. No way should the T-34 be able to go on to head on engagements vs the big cats. Spammable flanking machine should be it´s role.

I have calculated my proposal:

New reload 6 sec, Reload+Aim=6+0.125=6.125sec

Armor 170

Penetration Rise from 110 to 140

Cost 400MP/125Fuel

Scatter increase from 2.6 to 9.5
(Make them more a AT which soviet more desperately needed but not AI)

For 1v1 balancing purpose, T-34/85 can only be call-in when soviet build either T3 or T4 factories.(same should go for other heavy tanks in game, for ostheer should either build a T3 or reach the battle phase T4)

Panther vs T-34/85 (600MP/130FU vs 400MP/125fuel)

Panther finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*6.575/(100%)=32.875sec
new*T-34/85 finishing off a Panther: (960/160)*6.125/(140/270)=70.875sec
current*T-34/85 finishing off a Panther: (960/160)*8.575/(40.7407)=126.286sec(LOL)


PZIV vs T-34/85 (320MP/115fuel vs 400MP/125fuel)

PZIV finishing off a new*T-34/85: (800/160)*5.825/(110/170)=45.0114sec
new*T-34/85 finishing off a PZIV: (640/160)*6.125*(100%)=24.5sec
current*T-34/85 finishing off a PZIV: (640/160)*8.575/(68.75%)=49.8909sec(WTF?)

T-34/76 vs PZIV (280MP/85fuel vs. 320/115fuel)
PZIV finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*5.825/(95.6522%)=24.3591sec
T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec

As you can see, the cost-effecitveness increase merely linearly

For PZIV vs new*T-34/85 isn't as desperately as the situation when T-34/76 vs PZIV.

For Panther vs new*T-34/85
Panther only needs 32.875sec to smash the T-34/85, meanwhile T-34/85 needs 70.875 sec to finish off a Panther at the cost 600MP/130FU vs 400MP/125FU. And even 2 T-34/85 work together takes 70.875/2=35.4375sec to get the job done(which you'll ended up losing one tank) Yes, in tank battle, Panther still dominates.



And please always keep in mind that my proposal leds the T-34/85 can only be call-in when you have T3 or T4 building, and Panther has 50m main gun range vs 40m(T-34/85) max speed of 5.5(panther) vs 5.3(T-34/85).
I'd say this is so much a improve ment to current retarded vehicle balance

Wow, talk about some ridiculously over the top buffs. Something that has the same cost as a P4, but more hp, more armor, better accuracy (far lower scatter), better AI (see scatter), higher penetration, and zero build time? Seriously? Who would even consider building a normal T34-76 after that. Although not quite there yet, you are risking becoming a Soviet Nullist.

BTW, your calculations left out accuracy and scatter. The T34-85 has a tiny scatter so almost never misses tanks. It also makes it far more accurate vs infantry.

The T34-85 needs only a small buff to EITHER rate of fire or penetration to be fair for its price. Allowing it to be called in one at a time would also be a nice buff.

Wow, talk about some ridiculously over the top buffs. Something that has the same cost as a P4, but more hp, more armor, better accuracy (far lower scatter), better AI (see scatter), higher penetration, and zero build time? Seriously? Who would even consider building a normal T34-76 after that. Although not quite there yet, you are risking becoming a Soviet Nullist.

BTW, your calculations left out accuracy and scatter. The T34-85 has a tiny scatter so almost never misses tanks. It also makes it far more accurate vs infantry.

The T34-85 needs only a small buff to EITHER rate of fire or penetration to be fair for its price. Allowing it to be called in one at a time would also be a nice buff.

LOL, over buff? Perhaps you don't know that what PZIV got buffed

- Price from 480mp/120 fuel to 320mp/115 fuel
- Reload time from 4.75s to 5.75s
- Damage from 80 to 160
- Acceleration from 2.8 to 2.4
- Max speed from 5.3 to 5.2

doubled damage......and reduction in price.

The 130 fuel of Panther may already put an answer to your assumption.I'm mainly 2v2 player and play as wehr in vCOH COHOL and COH2, And I think I should increase the scatter let T-34/85 focus on AT you remind me. May be changed to 480MP/125FUEL, Fuel greater than a Panther is ridicules, Or 480MP/130Fuel and Make Panther to 580MP/140Fuel, The fuel cost of Panther is kinda low, so I can't make a T-34/85 fuel cost higher than a Panther(which takes 70.875sec to destroy a Panther meanwhile Panther only needs 32.875 sec)

And do soviet have better tanks other than T-34/85? T-34/85 should be intermediate between the PZIV and Panther

Edited: I've added the scatter 2.6 to 9.5(same as PZIV) to make it more AT like.

And do soviet have better tanks other than T-34/85? T-34/85 should be intermidiate between the PZIV and Panther

Link0 is actually right. All these changes would make it OP. T-34/85 should be rather on par with the Panzer IV. The 85mm offers better AI while the Panzer IV has better AT so the Panzer IV obviously has the slight upper hand. Seems balanced imo. with some minor tweaks. If the T-34/85 was to get major buffs in AT it´s ability to devastate infantry should be nerfed.