I'm not sure on specifics, but IMO something should be done to ALL attacking loiters to make them less effective (and cheaper by necessity). Maybe even go all the way and turn them into strafes?
Perhaps you could have 3 strafes to call in within a certain area. And then the planes deliver the payload in sequence?
I made a thread about this a while ago but I can't find it nor do I remember if there was any consensus. My big problem with loiters is that they require almost no micro to use, while forcing your opponent into a wild scramble just to save their units. Then there's the tracking issue where the planes follow you outside the circle if you didn't leave in time.
Redesigning Loiters
14 Feb 2019, 19:04 PM
#1
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
14 Feb 2019, 20:01 PM
#2
Posts: 956
At the very least, it should be made impossible to attack outside the circle even if they aquired you already
Personally, Id like to see an alternative: planes become partially controlable, you manually order them where to fly and what to shoot at, kinda like in Blitzkrieg2
Unfortunately, that is probably one for CoH3, in fact, Im not even sure if the first suggestion isnt made impossible by the shitty code
Reworkin them into strafes however might defeat the purpose of large scale and longer duration area denial (+punishing larger force concentrations that however arent quite blobs yet), so Im not sure about that
Personally, Id like to see an alternative: planes become partially controlable, you manually order them where to fly and what to shoot at, kinda like in Blitzkrieg2
Unfortunately, that is probably one for CoH3, in fact, Im not even sure if the first suggestion isnt made impossible by the shitty code
Reworkin them into strafes however might defeat the purpose of large scale and longer duration area denial (+punishing larger force concentrations that however arent quite blobs yet), so Im not sure about that
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
14 Feb 2019, 20:41 PM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Reworkin them into strafes however might defeat the purpose of large scale and longer duration area denial (+punishing larger force concentrations that however arent quite blobs yet), so Im not sure about that
But that's not what loiters do, at least in my experience. Most of them can only attack one type of target so they usually just end up chasing individual units outside the radius. Especially SCAS and P47s
Then there's sector assault which can attack both. Which is still completely broken because bombs that track can cause way more chaos.
14 Feb 2019, 21:49 PM
#4
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
IDK, most of the strafes have been nerfed to a reasonable point to where they aren't super lethal for their cost and are mostly used for area denial. IL2 no longer instawipes, P47 is fairly inaccurate, and Stuka CAS had it's damaged reduced, Sector Assault is more random than anything. I understand that it's frustrating because there is no indicator that you've been acquired but any further nerfs and they will be unusable.
14 Feb 2019, 22:12 PM
#5
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I understand that it's frustrating because there is no indicator that you've been acquired but any further nerfs and they will be unusable.
So re-design them. Maybe have SCAS/p47s do less damage but cause gun loader/vision criticals.
IL2s definitely aren't a problem anymore, because they suppress and control more than they kill. Sector assault, p47s, and SCAS can still too easily deliver kills.
P47s don't miss at all on Elefants and Jagdtigers. They rip them to shreds, AND those units are pretty hard to move out of loiters
14 Feb 2019, 22:21 PM
#6
Posts: 607
Do away with the loiter mechanic altogether and turn it into an aimed ability with a decent sized AOE where they do multiple strafes in that one zone.
Only 'loiter' should be the recon/mark-target ones.
Absolutely do away with the 'target acquired, track to the ends of the earth' effect we currently have.
Only 'loiter' should be the recon/mark-target ones.
Absolutely do away with the 'target acquired, track to the ends of the earth' effect we currently have.
15 Feb 2019, 21:31 PM
#7
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Do away with the loiter mechanic altogether and turn it into an aimed ability with a decent sized AOE where they do multiple strafes in that one zone.
Only 'loiter' should be the recon/mark-target ones.
Absolutely do away with the 'target acquired, track to the ends of the earth' effect we currently have.
Yeah I pretty much feel the same way. I'm willing to compromise with people on the first point, but your last point is the biggest issue here IMO.
16 Feb 2019, 20:42 PM
#8
Posts: 563
my idea would have been that you first chose the area where you use them and then you manually decide the strafe direction
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
17 Feb 2019, 14:26 PM
#9
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedI like the idea to make everything a strafe. And lower the price to whatever is acceptable. Much more skill based this way.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
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17 Feb 2019, 17:18 PM
#10
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I provide the Tank Hunter tactics AT bombing run as an example. That's a directional air support ability that is very strong but requires good placement. Same for frag bomb.
Maybe it's harder to balance strafes with non-bombers, but it really just seems to be all about finding a sweet spot with the timing of planes attack.
Maybe it's harder to balance strafes with non-bombers, but it really just seems to be all about finding a sweet spot with the timing of planes attack.
17 Feb 2019, 18:40 PM
#11
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I have said the same thing in the past, but for it to work, bugs need to be fixed first.
Just take a look at the performance of IL2 strafe run. If it's not AoE based, they don't work properly.
Just take a look at the performance of IL2 strafe run. If it's not AoE based, they don't work properly.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Feb 2019, 18:56 PM
#12
Posts: 956
I guess if you could infinitely spam strafes in the circle for the duration, it might work
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
17 Feb 2019, 19:20 PM
#13
Posts: 5279
This is going to sound strange but hear me out:
What if loiters provided a unit up in the unit card. They fly around like they do now, they have health like any other unit but the player needs to direct their attack in order to have them attack. They have a set range as defined by the loiter zone and since its a manual targeting (like strafes just more on demand while the plane is up) they can't track out of the zone.
Kinda like an airborne emplacement at the heart of it
Is that even possible?
What if loiters provided a unit up in the unit card. They fly around like they do now, they have health like any other unit but the player needs to direct their attack in order to have them attack. They have a set range as defined by the loiter zone and since its a manual targeting (like strafes just more on demand while the plane is up) they can't track out of the zone.
Kinda like an airborne emplacement at the heart of it
Is that even possible?
#stalinwept
25 Feb 2019, 19:43 PM
#14
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
This is going to sound strange but hear me out:
What if loiters provided a unit up in the unit card. They fly around like they do now, they have health like any other unit but the player needs to direct their attack in order to have them attack. They have a set range as defined by the loiter zone and since its a manual targeting (like strafes just more on demand while the plane is up) they can't track out of the zone.
Kinda like an airborne emplacement at the heart of it
Is that even possible?
I don't know if it's possible, but I know it's now near the top of my Coh3 wishlist.
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