Another JLI Idea

@ distrofio, i agree on that. spams of all kinds are annoying, blobbing was always a thing and probably still will be til the moment we get to play coh 3.
i can only speak for 2v2 games but when a player is blobbing here, he only has on shot in a push. if i pin the blob or get a lucky hit with indirect fire, he has to mass retreat and come at me again. which infantry im dealing witch, doesnt really matter. jli atleast dont have smokes or at and i wouldnt make the mistake to oppose them with my own infantry.
maybe that changes if there are potentially 4 blobs in teamgames aand youre limited to where you can spare mgs arty and similar stuff.

what i reall hate is soviet crew spam but lets not start that thematic^^

Or we make them cost as much as they are worth...just saying.. it could be easier than balancing again a new squad.

Tbh I'd like to experient with hard caps for call in units. Guard spam can't be a thing if you can only support 2...same with panzer fussiliers same with JLI same with rangers same with........

Much like heavy tanks being capped at 1 allowed them to be made formidable without the risk of being over used (and thus nerfed to fuck)

well you can still spam bren sections, bar-men and Volk terminators. isnt it possible to give them a penalty when being blobbed? the officer and command tanks give buffs, why dont too many inf models in close proximity just give a dbuff
should be possible shouldnt it?
i mean the problem does not lie in the units themselfes, its the players who abuse it.
i still am of the opinion that there are more than 3 solutions to counter blobs, but lets pretend they dont exist for this case

You can still blob those core units for sure, but that's a problem for them. I'd sooner see units being capped but unique and good than nerfed to uselessness because they CAN be spammed *cough* maxim, *cough*

Tbh I'd like to experient with hard caps for call in units. Guard spam can't be a thing if you can only support 2...same with panzer fussiliers same with JLI same with rangers same with........

Much like heavy tanks being capped at 1 allowed them to be made formidable without the risk of being over used (and thus nerfed to fuck)

The thing about hard caps is that they artificially restrict builds. Build diversity has recently been increasing, in my opinion, and thats a good thing. I like being able to puruse alternate build paths and imagine other people do too. Thats why I push for units to have as low of a cp as possible (or be tied to tech), and 0 cp callins to not start on cooldown. Coming up with a cool build you would like to try and having the game tell you "you're straight up not allowed to do that" sucks. Spammy builds should be prevented through good design and meaningful weaknesses (...and good number tuning, which can take a few tries...), not artificial hardcaps.

As for heavy tanks, the hard cap in current coh2 has likely stayed out of both principle and a fear of creating another callin meta. If heavy tanks were tied to teching, I would imagine hard caps could be done away with and the vehicles rebalanced.

yes im familiar with mp bleed. thanks for ecucating me but all you do when talking about Jaegers is pointing out their strenghts, when in fact they also have downsites in versatility, surviveability ect.

ive said that i havent seen it on MY TEAM, i have played gainst jli pretty often and as long as noone shows prove of their incredible superiority, which i dont see, other than saying sth about numbers, i will not change my opinion.
I dont get why they are compared to pathfinders neither, since they have a completely different role and for that still perform quiet well (even against JLI)

Yeah even with those downsides they still beat penals at range 10... likewise i conducted other range tests proving the overall superiority of jli over pretty much everything qualitatively and quantitatively... if you or your ally cant amove jli blobs then the problem is you or your ally

nice. well if you cant deal with a blob, no matter of what unit, the problem is on you. easy to say.
again, test all day long, you cannot simulate a real ingame situation by letting 2 units have a faceoff. dont know what you mean by range 10, is it close range? i can right now post a clip where jli lose a 1v1 to rear echelons on medium range

this whole discussion is obsolete. Relic, pls remove retreat path bugs and auto walk issues which cause unit wipes before nerfing some shit nobody acutally cares about. there are gamebreaking issues in this game, op units are non of em. this was my last word towards jli, keep discussing as lang as you want, after they are fixe (in your opinion) you will come up with some other unit and the wheel keeps spinning.

So you just let the blobs have a standoff? "lets see who has the better blob"? ;D nice nice
Pls provide me with ingame footage (a real game) where jaegers win against combined arms and i will apologise to you (well unless theres a vehicle or sth similar driving right into the blob an getting blasted by a raketenwerfer).

No i dont think they are op. i dont think theres anything that could be considered "overpowered". are shocks overpowered because they mow down grenadiers in a 1v3 situation, have a termaldetonator that not only kills Jabba but the Rankor beneath him? no, i dont think so. is the comet op because it just outmoves german heavy callins without being penetrateable by fausts? no. they all have their role in this game, jaegers are light combat troops designed for long range, same as an elephant snipes a comet across the map. Try not to change the game, CHANGE HOW YOU PLAY IT.

you (generally speaking) will never be satisfied. after you get your will, you will find the next unit to cry about. i watched this forum for years now and this is just how things turn out to be. balance balance balance and what did we get? there are more players complaining than ever before.

and yes. i stick to my last point regarding the gamebreaking issues. i guess this is one thing we all can agree on, isnt it? i love coh 2. its my facourite game as was coh 1 before and it can be made better but your approach is contradicting that. "öhhh relic, xyz sucks, nerf, remove, revamp" no! you want to force them to do sth that is your problem, not theirs.

Thanks. nice discussion, i have to go to the dentist. see you

Just remove the + sign in the number and it works.

Jaeger Light Infantry are the hot topic of the balance forum at the moment, with their very high damage and low cost leading to spam and lots of angry forum posts.

Most of the suggestions involve toning down JLI's damage to cost ratio: pushing them up to 280-300 MP is the usual suggestion, with others involving toning down their ambush and sniping bonuses or increasing their munitions cost.

But what if you left their damage alone, and toned down their durability instead?

• Jaeger Light Infantry squad size from 4 men to 3.
  
• Sniper Rifle unlocked automatically.
  
• Possibly increase their range slightly.

This'd keep JLI's performance pretty much the same in the role they're designed for: sitting at the back in a cover fight getting snipes, with other infantry screening for them.

However, they'd be more vulnerable to their counters (CQC and vehicles), making spamming them not viable at all. You'd need other squads to screen for them, much like protecting a sniper.

You could do something similar for Pathfinders too: drop their cost substantially, but reduce them to 3 men. That'd make them high damage, high LoS recon squads that can dish out a lot of damage but really don't want to be taking fire themselves.

Is their sight range equal to their firing range? Because i got an idea about both JLI and Pathfinders

Footage? Cant do that bc im out of town and dont have a video editor...

Also playercard pls?

So you just let the blobs have a standoff? "lets see who has the better blob"? ;D nice nice
Pls provide me with ingame footage (a real game) where jaegers win against combined arms and i will apologise to you (well unless theres a vehicle or sth similar driving right into the blob an getting blasted by a raketenwerfer).

No i dont think they are op. i dont think theres anything that could be considered "overpowered". are shocks overpowered because they mow down grenadiers in a 1v3 situation, have a termaldetonator that not only kills Jabba but the Rankor beneath him? no, i dont think so. is the comet op because it just outmoves german heavy callins without being penetrateable by fausts? no. they all have their role in this game, jaegers are light combat troops designed for long range, same as an elephant snipes a comet across the map. Try not to change the game, CHANGE HOW YOU PLAY IT.

you (generally speaking) will never be satisfied. after you get your will, you will find the next unit to cry about. i watched this forum for years now and this is just how things turn out to be. balance balance balance and what did we get? there are more players complaining than ever before.

and yes. i stick to my last point regarding the gamebreaking issues. i guess this is one thing we all can agree on, isnt it? i love coh 2. its my facourite game as was coh 1 before and it can be made better but your approach is contradicting that. "öhhh relic, xyz sucks, nerf, remove, revamp" no! you want to force them to do sth that is your problem, not theirs.

Thanks. nice discussion, i have to go to the dentist. see you

typically only axis player thinking

CHANGE HOW YOU PLAY IT. ? lol

flanking and CQC...blablabla~~

There is no meaning because JLI+volks blobing delete everything in max-mid range

use light vehicle? OKW easily counter light vehicle with "magical cloacking raketten" or puma

That is "combined arms" , u will say no problem

but one thing u must know is

OKW get easily everythig whatever they doing(AT,MG in HQ)

Allies is not

more cheap 250mp unit destroying everything and OKW easy system makes allies cant counter everything

Thats why OKW and JLI is OP

The thing about hard caps is that they artificially restrict builds. Build diversity has recently been increasing, in my opinion, and thats a good thing. I like being able to puruse alternate build paths and imagine other people do too. Thats why I push for units to have as low of a cp as possible (or be tied to tech), and 0 cp callins to not start on cooldown. Coming up with a cool build you would like to try and having the game tell you "you're straight up not allowed to do that" sucks. Spammy builds should be prevented through good design and meaningful weaknesses (...and good number tuning, which can take a few tries...), not artificial hardcaps.

As for heavy tanks, the hard cap in current coh2 has likely stayed out of both principle and a fear of creating another callin meta. If heavy tanks were tied to teching, I would imagine hard caps could be done away with and the vehicles rebalanced.

Yet the game has a pace and that should not be upset by dropping units that are simply from another time frame.

In the February 18th, 2014 Relic had to revert the change of Shock troops/Guards(/DShk/M-42/120mm) from 1 to 2 simply because these unit although weaker than now completely dominated the field.

So did assault grenadiers on release and they had artificially toned down "Dispatch Cost from 280 manpower to 200 manpower and 50 munitions", "Assault Grenadier dispatch cost from 200 MP and 50 MU to 320 MP" and then simply nerfed.

So did Osstruppen who are now on cooldown.

Unit available before minute one should be balanced vs stock units available that time (mainline infantry) or quickly loose power like assault grenadiers. If these call-in unit need to scale better than they should have weapon upgrades available to them gated behind tech progression.

Spammy builds should be prevented through good design and meaningful weaknesses (...and good number tuning, which can take a few tries...), not artificial hardcaps.

We've had 5 years of TRYING that. Some units need to be hard capped for the sake of flavor and balance. Look at guards for example. Fantastic all round elite infantry. Good enough to want to be spammed. Good enough to be used enough to be nerfed enough to simply not be worth it any more. I'd much sooner call in elites be worth calling in and elite instead of sharing cost effeciency with units that are meant to be plentiful and restricted because of that.

@mods i made valid points as to why jli are OP and contesting babas insistence on maintaining jli in its current state despite calling out baba for his bias...

An invis to the argument is unfair

Also @baba playercard please? You claim to be an allied player but your playercard gives an error 200

Good enough to be used enough to be nerfed enough to simply not be worth it any more.

It's been over a year since guards were nerfed, you never see them since then?