How do you counter these?
Every game I have played against them I just get molested and subsequently moaned at by teammates.
Assault Grenadiers
25 Sep 2013, 18:38 PM
#1
Posts: 24
25 Sep 2013, 19:05 PM
#2
Posts: 525
i dont get it.
you get moaned as german? or as russian?
as russians you have to go for light vehicles. m3 and m5 with flamers and t70. you have to use horra to escape the assault grenadiers. penal batalions to flame them, and overall be were they arent. is what i have heard. i have yet to play a match against them.
you get moaned as german? or as russian?
as russians you have to go for light vehicles. m3 and m5 with flamers and t70. you have to use horra to escape the assault grenadiers. penal batalions to flame them, and overall be were they arent. is what i have heard. i have yet to play a match against them.
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25 Sep 2013, 20:53 PM
#3
Posts: 30
We are all having to try and figure out how to counter that new commander. It kind of depends on how he is using the commander. From what I recall from the guy who created that tree is that he wanted to make a commander that didn’t need to build buildings. so keep that in mind if they are just unlocking stuff on their commander tree and spamming AGrens in the early game.
here is how I’ve tried to counter them (only played them in team games so far and when I’ve started to win vs them his team mate will come in with AT weapons and wipe my light vehicles)
if you have t1 go for scout cars with either eng w/flame throwers or penal squads w/flame throwers. if you go for t2 start spamming Maxims. be sure to tech to t3 as soon as possible to get a t70 because the German player will be able to get his halftrack filled with Pgrens and if you have no AT weapons when he does its GG. (I’ve already seen people unloading the halftrack and instead putting pioneers in it with a flamethrower. Like a much tougher scout car combo)
the main disadvantage of that commander is that there is no way to counter light vehicle’s if they just spam the AGrens. they don’t get a counter for armor until they can get the halftrack with the pgrens and upgrade them. And that costs 500+ manpower. The other drawback to this is that from what I’ve seen the Germans are in such a hurry to unlock the next thing in their tree that they don’t build a med bunker. This can work to your advantage.
Lastly the other counter to the AGrens is that they only do damage up close. Do your best to stay away from them and if you have the resources throw Molotov’s, especially if you skipped T1. Then mass Maxims (2-3) and at least 1 AT gun.
hope that helps.
here is how I’ve tried to counter them (only played them in team games so far and when I’ve started to win vs them his team mate will come in with AT weapons and wipe my light vehicles)
if you have t1 go for scout cars with either eng w/flame throwers or penal squads w/flame throwers. if you go for t2 start spamming Maxims. be sure to tech to t3 as soon as possible to get a t70 because the German player will be able to get his halftrack filled with Pgrens and if you have no AT weapons when he does its GG. (I’ve already seen people unloading the halftrack and instead putting pioneers in it with a flamethrower. Like a much tougher scout car combo)
the main disadvantage of that commander is that there is no way to counter light vehicle’s if they just spam the AGrens. they don’t get a counter for armor until they can get the halftrack with the pgrens and upgrade them. And that costs 500+ manpower. The other drawback to this is that from what I’ve seen the Germans are in such a hurry to unlock the next thing in their tree that they don’t build a med bunker. This can work to your advantage.
Lastly the other counter to the AGrens is that they only do damage up close. Do your best to stay away from them and if you have the resources throw Molotov’s, especially if you skipped T1. Then mass Maxims (2-3) and at least 1 AT gun.
hope that helps.
25 Sep 2013, 22:02 PM
#4
Posts: 525
Haven't encountered them yet,did you try using Shock Troops or Conscripts with PPsh's against them??
25 Sep 2013, 22:06 PM
#5
15 
Posts: 786
just tried this crap vs wuff, looks like the sweet spot is 3 arse grens, then tech to SC.
his flamer m3 did hit the field at the same exact time as my 222, which I was able to upgun straight away.
by this time what he had left was one standard territory point.
he could have won the cons/flame-m3 assgr/SC engagement but still he had to come back from being almost basepinned, and i had plenty of resources to keep scout cars coming
the guy in the following game immediately asked if I was using the commander and surrendered
his flamer m3 did hit the field at the same exact time as my 222, which I was able to upgun straight away.
by this time what he had left was one standard territory point.
he could have won the cons/flame-m3 assgr/SC engagement but still he had to come back from being almost basepinned, and i had plenty of resources to keep scout cars coming
the guy in the following game immediately asked if I was using the commander and surrendered
25 Sep 2013, 22:22 PM
#6
Posts: 525
just tried this crap vs wuff, looks like the sweet spot is 3 arse grens, then tech to SC.
his flamer m3 did hit the field at the same exact time as my 222, which I was able to upgun straight away.
by this time what he had left was one standard territory point.
he could have won the cons/flame-m3 assgr/SC engagement but still he had to come back from being almost basepinned, and i had plenty of resources to keep scout cars coming
the guy in the following game immediately asked if I was using the commander and surrendered
This truly is a problem,don't see a reason for grenadiers anymore,balance has gone to hell with this unit
25 Sep 2013, 23:15 PM
#7
Posts: 50
just tried this crap vs wuff, looks like the sweet spot is 3 arse grens, then tech to SC.
his flamer m3 did hit the field at the same exact time as my 222, which I was able to upgun straight away.
by this time what he had left was one standard territory point.
he could have won the cons/flame-m3 assgr/SC engagement but still he had to come back from being almost basepinned, and i had plenty of resources to keep scout cars coming
the guy in the following game immediately asked if I was using the commander and surrendered
this is sad and literally makes me sick.
why did they fuck this game so hard and why do they hate soviets so much? Soviets have always been a fly by the seat of your pants faction where really you have to just react to the german player, not make your own strategy. And now its even worse, pigeonholded into 1 strategy or just playing to counter the german and eventually lose either way. I refuse to even play soviet anymore after this new patch. Makes me sick and I doubt ill be playing much longer.
26 Sep 2013, 05:52 AM
#8
Posts: 68
Can people seriously just calm down? The patch went out like a day ago and people are already screaming 'OP'. That just makes you look like a bunch of whiney children who don't want to adapt your already determined strat to come up with a counter.
The point in a counter is that you force the enemy to do something else. This is what RTS is all about. It is NOT soviets having to run around after Germans - the exact same can be said about Germans because BOTH players have to adapt and counter what the other faction is doing. Come up with a counter to counter what they are doing, they will try to counter your counter - and the cycle continues. It may seem like you have to 'run around what the other players do' if you have only ever played one faction. After having extensive experience with both you start to realise both factions have to adapt and change their strategy in accordance to what your opponent is doing.
This thread actually started off legitimately before a bunch of soviet crybaby's joined in saying this unit is OP. There are counters to this unit in both initial soviet tiers, as has been said in this thread. (M3 + flamer or Maxims). Once you get 1 CP (which really doesn't take long) you can counter pretty hard with shock troops or guards.
If you dominate with this strat, just think it maybe (just maybe) be because these units are brand new and people haven't figured out how to deal with them yet.
The point in a counter is that you force the enemy to do something else. This is what RTS is all about. It is NOT soviets having to run around after Germans - the exact same can be said about Germans because BOTH players have to adapt and counter what the other faction is doing. Come up with a counter to counter what they are doing, they will try to counter your counter - and the cycle continues. It may seem like you have to 'run around what the other players do' if you have only ever played one faction. After having extensive experience with both you start to realise both factions have to adapt and change their strategy in accordance to what your opponent is doing.
This thread actually started off legitimately before a bunch of soviet crybaby's joined in saying this unit is OP. There are counters to this unit in both initial soviet tiers, as has been said in this thread. (M3 + flamer or Maxims). Once you get 1 CP (which really doesn't take long) you can counter pretty hard with shock troops or guards.
If you dominate with this strat, just think it maybe (just maybe) be because these units are brand new and people haven't figured out how to deal with them yet.
26 Sep 2013, 06:13 AM
#9
Posts: 50
Can people seriously just calm down? The patch went out like a day ago and people are already screaming 'OP'. That just makes you look like a bunch of whiney children who don't want to adapt your already determined strat to come up with a counter.
The point in a counter is that you force the enemy to do something else. This is what RTS is all about. It is NOT soviets having to run around after Germans - the exact same can be said about Germans because BOTH players have to adapt and counter what the other faction is doing. Come up with a counter to counter what they are doing, they will try to counter your counter - and the cycle continues. It may seem like you have to 'run around what the other players do' if you have only ever played one faction. After having extensive experience with both you start to realise both factions have to adapt and change their strategy in accordance to what your opponent is doing.
This thread actually started off legitimately before a bunch of soviet crybaby's joined in saying this unit is OP. There are counters to this unit in both initial soviet tiers, as has been said in this thread. (M3 + flamer or Maxims). Once you get 1 CP (which really doesn't take long) you can counter pretty hard with shock troops or guards.
If you dominate with this strat, just think it maybe (just maybe) be because these units are brand new and people haven't figured out how to deal with them yet.
ladder stats please?
I play both as well, infact 200 games with both. And ranked around 300 with both. And with germans i can do w/e the fuck i want, half track flamer, p4's, ass grens, scout car spam, pg spam, all kinds of shit, and they will have to find a way to counter it. I rarely have to counter anything the soviet is doing i pretty much can run my own shit and they have to react to me. Cons spam to fast t-70's is the only thing where id have to do something differently, meanwhile while playing soviets its quite different. and there are not as many viable options. It is very evident to me that soviets are underpowered, hell all you have to do is check the leaderboards top 300 players for both factions and you will see that german players on average win MUCH MORE than the soviet players. Soviet players on average will ahve much worse win loss ratios. Explain that? thats the proof right there but fanboys and devs refuse to face the facts and thats why there will always be much more ppl playing german and the game will not last long if not addressed, since u cant play german vs german.
26 Sep 2013, 06:14 AM
#10
Posts: 5
shocks, ppsh cons, maxim, m3 flamer, t70... there are many ways people just have to try out things
26 Sep 2013, 07:11 AM
#11
Posts: 219
Had a 2vs2 with my buddy against this commander. It's a pain in the ass to play against the Assault grenadiers. I went for the Guard Rifle Combined Arms to try out the PPSh's. They do not work very well. M3 with flamers tore them up and forced retreat upon them.
I have to say that the new call in halftrack takes a good punch. It took my guards rifle squad plenty of hits to take it down.
The commander is definitely beatable with the common commmanders. Just prepare yourself for alot of spamming from player using this commander. Heck, they even spammed tigers in the end. But thats where artillery and Su-85's hit hard. We won the game 25-0 after being dominated throughout the midgame because of their capping power.
I have to say that the new call in halftrack takes a good punch. It took my guards rifle squad plenty of hits to take it down.
The commander is definitely beatable with the common commmanders. Just prepare yourself for alot of spamming from player using this commander. Heck, they even spammed tigers in the end. But thats where artillery and Su-85's hit hard. We won the game 25-0 after being dominated throughout the midgame because of their capping power.
26 Sep 2013, 07:11 AM
#12
Posts: 219
Had a 2vs2 with my buddy against this commander. It's a pain in the ass to play against the Assault grenadiers. I went for the Guard Rifle Combined Arms to try out the PPSh's. They do not work very well. M3 with flamers tore them up and forced retreat upon them.
I have to say that the new call in halftrack takes a good punch. It took my guards rifle squad plenty of hits to take it down.
The commander is definitely beatable with the common commmanders. Just prepare yourself for alot of spamming from the player using this commander. Heck, they even spammed tigers in the end. But thats where artillery and Su-85's hit hard. We won the game 25-0 after being dominated throughout the midgame.
26 Sep 2013, 07:17 AM
#13
Posts: 219
double post, argh... :/
26 Sep 2013, 07:19 AM
#14
Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1
I have tried countering them with shocks but I just couldn't produce enough squads to take them down.
Conscripts even with HTD and PPSH's stand no chance.
I tried HT as well and had some minor successes, assgrens are so powerful for early game.
Conscripts even with HTD and PPSH's stand no chance.
I tried HT as well and had some minor successes, assgrens are so powerful for early game.
26 Sep 2013, 11:06 AM
#15
Posts: 24
did you try using Shock Troops or Conscripts with PPsh's against them??
I don't use shocks that often so I haven't tried these yet, but I did attempt to fight them with ppsh conscripts.
My vet one conscripts with ppsh upgrade only killed one squad member of the, unvetted, grens (point blanc and both in yellow cover) while taking 4 losses themselves before I retreated. This only happened once though so it could have been one of those rare unlucky breaks you sometimes get.
26 Sep 2013, 12:13 PM
#16
Posts: 17
Well said gttv 
. Russian players seem
To forget how frustrating and op the sniper -su combo still is. It's good to see some
Off field infantry for Germans now. While as grens may be a bit op so early
There are always counters.
. Russian players seemTo forget how frustrating and op the sniper -su combo still is. It's good to see some
Off field infantry for Germans now. While as grens may be a bit op so early
There are always counters.
26 Sep 2013, 17:15 PM
#17
Posts: 525
Well said gttv
To forget how frustrating and op the sniper -su combo still is. It's good to see some
Off field infantry for Germans now. While as grens may be a bit op so early
There are always counters.
You can't even tech to SU85 anymore because you lost the early game...
And no the only viable counter are Shock Troops,as soon as you get enough resources for M3+Flamethrower the opponent already has the Armoured Car out
26 Sep 2013, 17:41 PM
#18
Posts: 179
They just changed the cost of assault grenadiers to 200 manpower and 50 munitions. That should cut down on the spam and force you to make a choice.
26 Sep 2013, 17:46 PM
#19
Posts: 412
Changes the whole unit dynamic two days after release. Makes you wonder how much time and input, if any the balance team had with the new DLC releases.
I get the logic behind the change, but it's a bit too ott imo. Saying that, it was a quick fix and next patch i'm sure they'll be adjusted again.
I get the logic behind the change, but it's a bit too ott imo. Saying that, it was a quick fix and next patch i'm sure they'll be adjusted again.
26 Sep 2013, 20:21 PM
#20
Posts: 622
They just changed the cost of assault grenadiers to 200 manpower and 50 munitions. That should cut down on the spam and force you to make a choice.
it is not just cut down the spam, it pretty much cut the uses of that unit, for me i rather wait for 60 MU and upgrade a PIO with flame or upgrade a gren with LMG42 it become better anti infantry unit than a Agren.
also they better buff the Agren nade a bit, i mean last night i throw a nade at two conscript squad which are stacking together(no cover) and i look at 5 countdown is all on top of those conscript and wish a good kill, guess what, those 5 explosive killed 2 out 12 guys in the area, a rifle nade from a gren will kill more than that, Agren nades are not anti infantry nade, is more like 5 firecrackers.
also that commander's 3CP stug 3 sucks, i hope they change to a P3 like a tank in between of T70 and P4 or a greman version of T70.
so i will stop use that commander until they change it become more reasonable, like i think Agren cost 300MP is reasonable, or 200MP 25MU （maybe, i still don't like the idea call in unit cost MU, wasn't that same reason Shock trooper change price?) more than that i rather wait for Pgren or upgrade grens and pio
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