can we now fix soviet T2 please?

At nades to sappers* and sappers are in an expensive t1 upgrade... in contrast to the cheap t1 of wehr...

sapper = royal engineer (R E), R E comes out at around 40 munitions and the brits already have the UC as their own LV, green would not have anything if u removed panzer faust and if u moved to BP1 u would need to make it much cheaper than now, i mean if u want 2 min 222 u are free to move it to bp1 and lowering the price

Ostruppen gets an lmg 42
Ostruppen are much cheaper
Cons ppsh are still weaker than lmg grens stg volks and ostruppen in yellow cover
Ostruppen gets free at snares
Ostruppen can build trenches and bunkers
Ostruppen get 50% increased acc in cover
But most importantly
Ostruppen get far superior support assets...

Ostruppen are better

cons have much better vet, and they are a doc squad, "axis get free shit" whine as always, again that's cause of doc (same logic could be said for cons that can repair with doc),did u see ostruppen base accuracy ?, what is the superior support asset ?, btw ostppen have base 1,25 base recived accuracy, just so u know teh LMG doesn't get the bonus acc so it's half a normal lmg in power

Ostruppen gets an lmg 42
Ostruppen are much cheaper
Cons ppsh are still weaker than lmg grens stg volks and ostruppen in yellow cover
Ostruppen gets free at snares
Ostruppen can build trenches and bunkers
Ostruppen get 50% increased acc in cover
But most importantly
Ostruppen get far superior support assets...

Ostruppen are better

Tested in cheatmods with sandbags for both... mg42 wins regardless so long as its in similar cover (yellow v yellow or green v green)

1. LMG42 with T4, true.
2. Cheaper but worse in colose-range. Shouldn't be a problem.
3. We are speaking about Osttruppen, you will eat them in close-combat with or without upgrade.
4. You have to build T1 or T2 for Faust. Passive-tech.
5. Cons can build structures too, in my opinion better as trenches. You have Molotoves to deal with such emplacements.
6. In cover they become "normal" units, push them and they are cheap XP.
7. The question about support assets: MG42 is needed versus Allii-infantry-blobbs. Why? Because you don't get negative multipliers and have close-range grenades and abilities Ostheer doesn't have.

Normally a MG42 vs Maxim battle looks so:
MG42 pinns Maxim, kills 2-3 men. Than MG42 gets suppressed, stops shooting and gets raped by Maxim. If that doesn't happen something got wrong.

I also put every Maxim I find with my Osttruppen. Same as Vickers. This things are OP as fu**. Ignoring suppression and have enough dps too deal with most units.



Cons are good as they are. Maxim is good as it is. Zis is also good as it is.

You knwo whats the real problem is why you think they are so bad? Because Penals are simply OP until Panzerwerfer or Brummbär arrives.

cons have much better vet, and they are a doc squad, "axis get free shit" whine as always, again that's cause of doc (same logic could be said for cons that can repair with doc),did u see ostruppen base accuracy ?, what is the superior support asset ?, btw ostppen have base 1,25 base recived accuracy

Cons have better vet but are useless without vet. Cons also require heavy extra investment in order to reach their full potential. The cost to fully kit out cons is about what it costs for brits to increase the durability and dps of their infantry by 25% that is fucking nuts to think about.

Cons are bad because of the aforementioned additional cost but also that outside of vet they lack any means to scale meaning a wipe is irreplaceable. Wipes are bad for other factions as well of course but some of the loss can be made up by throwing munitions at them. If you lose a gren squad you can pay 60 mu and get most of their DPS back meaning they start to vet faster, same with Volks, rifles, RE, sappers, Obers and Tommies. If you lose a con squad you might as write them off because there is nothing you can do to make them even close to a vetted squad, they will lose hard to enemy vetted and armed squads and not deal enough damage to justify their pop cap.

With certain doctrines they are viable, but that makes them the only core unit in the entire game that is only viable if you lock out other choices which is horrible design.

Cons have better vet but are useless without vet. Cons also require heavy extra investment in order to reach their full potential. The cost to fully kit out cons is about what it costs for brits to increase the durability and dps of their infantry by 25% that is fucking nuts to think about.

Like every unit becomes useless without vet in lategame.

Cons have no Problem too deal with Osttruppen 1vs1. And in a normal situation there will be a MG42, but you can also have a Maxim, Sniper, Penal, Clown-Car.

You know, if Osttruppen have no Faust you know, that there will not be a Sniper, Mortar or Grenadier.


And I prefer NOT to build T1 if I Play versus Brits or US, so, that is a normal Scenario.

Cons have better vet but are useless without vet. Cons also require heavy extra investment in order to reach their full potential. The cost to fully kit out cons is about what it costs for brits to increase the durability and dps of their infantry by 25% that is fucking nuts to think about.

Cons are bad because of the aforementioned additional cost but also that outside of vet they lack any means to scale meaning a wipe is irreplaceable. Wipes are bad for other factions as well of course but some of the loss can be made up by throwing munitions at them. If you lose a gren squad you can pay 60 mu and get most of their DPS back meaning they start to vet faster, same with Volks, rifles, RE, sappers, Obers and Tommies. If you lose a con squad you might as write them off because there is nothing you can do to make them even close to a vetted squad, they will lose hard to enemy vetted and armed squads and not deal enough damage to justify their pop cap.

With certain doctrines they are viable, but that makes them the only core unit in the entire game that is only viable if you lock out other choices which is horrible design.

u lose the 60 munitions spent on it too, and green pay for by missing in hp and mens so they are more prone to wiping, bte as already pointed out to kat, cons do their job at close range, nobody wants the old cons >cons>cons>cons>cons>medics>t70 meta cookie cutter, cons will always be useful to thanks to merge too

sapper = royal engineer (R E), R E comes out at around 40 munitions and the brits already have the UC as their own LV, green would not have anything if u removed panzer faust and if u moved to BP1 u would need to make it much cheaper than now, i mean if u want 2 min 222 u are free to move it to bp1 and lowering the price

Ok then make ost t1 cost some 40 ish fuel...
Look all of this is besides the point... the point here is that sov has this expensive sidetech equivalent to shooting your light vehicle phase in the foot just to get snares... how about we just let cons have cheaper AT snares is that somehow gamebreaking or smth??

u lose the 60 munitions spent on it too, and green pay for by missing in hp and mens so they are more prone to wiping, bte as already pointed out to kat, cons do their job at close range, nobody wants the old cons >cons>cons>cons>cons>medics>t70 meta cookie cutter

Now it is penal>penal>penal>penal>medics>t70 maybe with some ptrs. Enouth too hold the ground, even in late-game.

Cons are ok. Penals are op. Maxim us good as it is too. Zis performs perfect versus all kind of tanks (mix your line-up with a Penal and the fight is yours)

Ok then make ost t1 cost some 40 ish fuel...
Look all of this is besides the point... the point here is that sov has this expensive sidetech equivalent to shooting your light vehicle phase in the foot just to get snares... how about we just let cons have cheaper AT snares is that somehow gamebreaking or smth??

Then build T2 with Zis or T1 with peanl+ptrs. Here is your AT. What will you kill with the at-grenade? There is no early vehicle rush left with Ostheer. Or is the Kübelwagen too much for you?

Ok then make ost t1 cost some 40 ish fuel...
Look all of this is besides the point... the point here is that sov has this expensive sidetech equivalent to shooting your light vehicle phase in the foot just to get snares... how about we just let cons have cheaper AT snares is that somehow gamebreaking or smth??

what? so not even the saem 30 fuel the brits pay ? just 10 more fuel cause they are axis right ? mind putting 221 and greens in tier 0 too ? Cheaper at can be done that's not what you asked, what u asked was cheaper cons by 20/30 mp thats a lot

what? so not even the saem 30 fuel the brits pay ? just 10 more fuel cause they are axis right ? mind putting 221 and greens in tier 0 too ? Cheaper at can be done that's not what you asked, what u asked was cheaper cons by 20/30 mp thats a lot

There was an other topic too make conse cheaper with 220mp. But you know what that would mean for balancing?

Nerfing Penals and increasing the PPsh-upgrade costs.

cons have much better vet, and they are a doc squad, "axis get free shit" whine as always, again that's cause of doc (same logic could be said for cons that can repair with doc),did u see ostruppen base accuracy ?, what is the superior support asset ?, btw ostppen have base 1,25 base recived accuracy, just so u know teh LMG doesn't get the bonus acc so it's half a normal lmg in power

Ostruppen gets vet aswell... not as good as cons but its good... BUT not only do cons have worse fighting ability but on top of all the advantages i mentioned ost still has the best support weapons bar none...

Ostruppen gets vet aswell... not as good as cons but its good... BUT not only do cons have worse fighting ability but on top of all the advantages i mentioned ost still has the best support weapons bar none...

this is just your biased opinion with no facts to back it up, ostuppen beats cons only in cover at 30 range or more,u are just pushing ur narrative as u want if u want ur facts get it from the spread sheet

Ostruppen gets vet aswell... not as good as cons but its good... BUT not only do cons have worse fighting ability but on top of all the advantages i mentioned ost still has the best support weapons bar none...

What is the support-weapon you are afraid of? MG42? Mortar? PaK40?

- MG42 is good, but stops shooting if suppressed. On open field what means, pin it. It is the only unit Ostheer has to hold the early-game in balance.
- Mortar is worse than US-mortar, same dps, but needs longer to move = harder to counter.
- PaK40 has same DPS as british-PaK BUT is way slower in turning. The Vet1 ability is nice, but got nerfed. For me 6pounder is the better gun (it is also op, same dps as Zis would be also good, there is no tank left on german side, also you get Firefly and PaK-Emplacement too)

What is the support-weapon you are afraid? MG42? Mortar? PaK40?

- MG42 is good, but stops shooting if suppressed. On open field what means, pin it. It is the only unit Ostheer has to hold the early-game in balance.
- Mortar is worse than US-mortar, same dps, but needs longer to move = harder to counter.
- PaK40 has same DPS as british-PaK BUT is way slower in turning. The Vet1 ability is nice, but got nerfed. For me 6pounder is the better gun (it is also op, same dps as Zis would be also good, there is no tank left on german side, also you get Firefly and PaK-Emplacement too)

ok no it has more range so it's better at 60 or more range thanks to better accuracy of the range too, but soviet all have 6 man squad so they are still very good
btw the soviet mortar is actually more precise than the ost one at the cost rate of fire, ziz has AI barrage, and maxixim still does ot's job without being the old pain in the ass that was maxim spam

1. LMG42 with T4, true.
2. Cheaper but worse in colose-range. Shouldn't be a problem.
3. We are speaking about Osttruppen, you will eat them in close-combat with or without upgrade.
4. You have to build T1 or T2 for Faust. Passive-tech.
5. Cons can build structures too, in my opinion better as trenches. You have Molotoves to deal with such emplacements.
6. In cover they become "normal" units, push them and they are cheap XP.
7. The question about support assets: MG42 is needed versus Allii-infantry-blobbs. Why? Because you don't get negative multipliers and have close-range grenades and abilities Ostheer doesn't have.

Normally a MG42 vs Maxim battle looks so:
MG42 pinns Maxim, kills 2-3 men. Than MG42 gets suppressed, stops shooting and gets raped by Maxim. If that doesn't happen something got wrong.

I also put every Maxim I find with my Osttruppen. Same as Vickers. This things are OP as fu**. Ignoring suppression and have enough dps too deal with most units.



Cons are good as they are. Maxim is good as it is. Zis is also good as it is.

You knwo whats the real problem is why you think they are so bad? Because Penals are simply OP until Panzerwerfer or Brummbär arrives.

Lmg in battlephase 3*
Worse at long range soo meh*
But lose at long range with or without upgrades
If you think a 25 fuel sidetech is equivalent to a 10 fuel techup that gives u mortars grens and snipers then you are smoking some strong weed
Ostruppen builds sandbags aswell... and can build trenches and bunkers... infact ost builds better sandbags than cons.. and mollys suck vs bunkers
Cheap xp is a plus for ost... enemies gain less exp killing models
I understand why the mg42 is powerful... i dont understand why cons and maxims have to be shit when sov T2 has no nondoc elite infantry to speak of
Mg42s win with or without cover... tested on cheatmod 2... your experience is simply taken in a non vacuum situation or with confirmation bias
The vickers??? Op as fuck???? L2P...

Lastly penals are strong but its not like ost cant counter the penals... grens mg42 and snipers are great vs penals...

What is the support-weapon you are afraid of? MG42? Mortar? PaK40?

- MG42 is good, but stops shooting if suppressed. On open field what means, pin it. It is the only unit Ostheer has to hold the early-game in balance.
- Mortar is worse than US-mortar, same dps, but needs longer to move = harder to counter.
- PaK40 has same DPS as british-PaK BUT is way slower in turning. The Vet1 ability is nice, but got nerfed. For me 6pounder is the better gun (it is also op, same dps as Zis would be also good, there is no tank left on german side, also you get Firefly and PaK-Emplacement too)

1. It doesnt mean jack shit if the mg42 stops firing it still defeats the maxim

2. Ost turbomortar??? Worse than usf??? L2p...

3. Twp > faster turning... and you clearly biased opinion doesnt count

this is just your biased opinion with no facts to back it up, ostuppen beats cons only in cover at 30 range or more,u are just pushing ur narrative as u want if u want ur facts get it from the spread sheet

That "Opinion" is tested in cheatmods... and your data confirms this... as you previously menioned ostruppen wins long range engagements vs conscripts soo the argument is moot point...

That "Opinion" is tested in cheatmods... and your data confirms this... as you previously menioned ostruppen wins long range engagements vs conscripts soo the argument is moot point...

well i guess mg is fucking useless as cons can beat it when they go from behind, buff the mg 42 as it should beat cons in all situations
u know that obers lose to close range squad or double bar rifleman at close range while being in tier 3 and costing a lot more than others?
units are designed to lose at certain range and win at others even if they cost less or more

Now it is penal>penal>penal>penal>medics>t70 maybe with some ptrs. Enouth too hold the ground, even in late-game.

Cons are ok. Penals are op. Maxim us good as it is too. Zis performs perfect versus all kind of tanks (mix your line-up with a Penal and the fight is yours)

This argument is besides the point... and judging by your dumb conclusions its clear you lack experience in playing ukf usf and sov...
Ok lets make the zis 3 the maxim and the cons a clone of the pak 40 the mg42 and ostruppen and i bet you you would find them OP...
God youre worse than ulumullu