Increase light jaegars price

Standing in green cover and trying to trade with jaegers is moronic, how can you even call that a test.

Literally nobody agrees with you about the 340 mp cost, quit flooding the thread. You are distracting people from actual suggestions to fix jaegers.

Standing in green cover and trying to trade with jaegers is moronic, how can you even call that a test.

thats at 10 meters this is already short range and yet this "long range recon squad" still trades better than 300mp line infantry... if you dont think this is broken then you are smoking one helluva joint

to give you a perspective 10 meters is the distance a penal can throw the satchel...

Literally nobody agrees with you about the 340 mp cost, quit flooding the thread. You are distracting people from actual suggestions to fix jaegers.

your suggestion of nerfing them 280mp is still too cheap for jagers seeing how they butcher penals... this ridiculous assertion of a "long range recon squad" trading shots at close range and winning vs 300mp line infantry is stupid...

remember this is CLOSE RANGE were talking about not long or medium range... and line infantry still lose

mind you my preferred suggestion is a simple nerf to 40% crit which brings it in line with pathfinders... no price adjustment needed... i simply stated 340mp 2cp pricetag as a response to those who actually want to keep jagers as a 70% crit infantry unit... mostly against wehraboos

thats at 10 meters this is already short range and yet this "long range recon squad" still trades better than 300mp line infantry... if you dont think this is broken then you are smoking one helluva joint

to give you a perspective 10 meters is the distance a penal can throw the satchel...



your suggestion of nerfing them 280mp is still too cheap for jagers seeing how they butcher penals... this ridiculous assertion of a "long range recon squad" trading shots at close range and winning vs 300mp line infantry is stupid...

remember this is CLOSE RANGE were talking about not long or medium range... and line infantry still lose

mind you my preferred suggestion is a simple nerf to 40% crit which brings it in line with pathfinders... no price adjustment needed... i simply stated 340mp 2cp pricetag as a response to those who actually want to keep jagers as a 70% crit infantry unit... mostly against wehraboos

I didn't say long range squad I said fighting them in green cover, which snipers are designed to counter. Literally advance 2 meters to negate cover and annihilate them at close range, absolutely useless to compare them with penals at 10 meters in green cover because only a moron would play like that.

I didn't say long range squad I said fighting them in green cover, which snipers are designed to counter. Literally advance 2 meters to negate cover and annihilate them at close range, absolutely useless to compare them with penals at 10 meters in green cover because only a moron would play like that.

trying to advance into a jager squad from maximum range means certain death... hiding on cover trying to fight the jagers means certain death... the only option for the soviet player is to use a sniper which JLI spawning from behind counters... abuse an M3 or a T-70 which the rakaten counters... or mass artillery which is inefficient vs a light recon squad...

mind you jagers are not gonna be alone but going to have volksgrenadiers with STGs supporting them... they are a force multiplier like snipers but unlike snipers they can outshoot a penal squad at 10 meters and should be priced accordingly

mind you jagers are not gonna be alone but going to have volksgrenadiers with STGs supporting them... they are a force multiplier like snipers but unlike snipers they can outshoot a penal squad at 10 meters and should be priced accordingly

Get
In
Close
Range

Sitting in cover at 10 meters is not close range. Sitting in cover is exactly what jaegers are designed to counter. Get in close range and the penals will annihilate the jaegers. If there are already volks and jaegers in cover waiting to ambush you then you need more than just blobbing penals to deal with them. You already let them get a superior position than you, that's why you are losing these engagements.

Get
In
Close
Range

surprise STG volks... theres a little thing called combined arms as ive previously mentioned... JLI are the equivalent of 4 man sniper teams with sprint...someone that uses JLI without screening volks is usually doomed due to the T-70/M3... but with volks penals cant touch you... which leaves you the options i gave...

btw closing in from max range with penals still gets you screwed by JLI on a penal vs JLI situation...

Sitting in cover at 10 meters is not close range. Sitting in cover is exactly what jaegers are designed to counter. Get in close range and the penals will annihilate the jaegers. If there are already volks and jaegers in cover waiting to ambush you then you need more than just blobbing penals to deal with them. You already let them get a superior position than you, that's why you are losing these engagements.

great... someone doesnt get the point... ok let me simplify it this way...

okw uses jagers to attack at a long distance plinking at penals... i try sniping but no way in hell is my sniper gonna be more efficient than 250mp terminators... so i lose...

i decide to attack with penals instead of trying to plink at long range... you still lose because of STG volks

i decide to use vehicles... still lose bc rakaten + pzfaust...

the reason why the old OKW was vulnerable was because the soviet sniper could punish OKW static play... thus forcing OKW to attack and to try to close the gap to use their STG advantage vs my rifle equipped infantry... but then the situation is lopsided now... penals lose at long range... penals lose at close range... there is no combat situation left where the soviets can challenge OKW thanks to JLI... as opposed to pre dec patch where i could force OKW to attack via snipes barrage etc...

simply put there is nothing sov can do that can beat JLI + Volk + rakaten combo efficiently... it simply wins in close medium and long range engagements and whether i rush it or not... i cannot force it to attack and i cannot rush it and expect to survive...

the only real counter that works vs jagers was massed SU-76 barrage fire annihilating the OKW infantry force + mass mining the area once i took it over... and mind you this only works vs players lower in skill than yours... mostly those that dont bother to get sweepers

Maybe someone should play soviets and 1v1 you as OKW so you can understand how to counter them?

Maybe someone should play soviets and 1v1 you as OKW so you can understand how to counter them?

they arent unbeatable... beating them is just cost inefficient... as i said
"
the only real counter that works vs jagers was massed SU-76 barrage fire annihilating the OKW infantry force + mass mining the area once i took it over... and mind you this only works vs players lower in skill than yours... mostly those that dont bother to get sweepers"

there is 1 more aswell... which is pressuring OKW in the 1st 4 minutes hard enough that they have a significant disadvantage in MP... but again this only really works vs a player of lower skill not vs an even skilled player...

they arent unbeatable... beating them is just cost inefficient

The way you talk and spam this thread it seems like you are suggesting they are unbeatable. If you are struggling vs them there is no shame in asking for help.

The way you talk and spam this thread it seems like you are suggesting they are unbeatable. If you are struggling vs them there is no shame in asking for help.

im saying they are ridiculously cost efficient for their performance which they are... jagers are 4 man sniper teams and should be treated as such or get nerfed to 40% critical which puts it in line with pathfinders...

the main contension between me and tobis is the fact that i disagree with his assessment of a 280mp pricetag being balanced... because even at 280 they still outperform paths and penals by a large margin at long to medium combat ranges outside cover and at short ranges in cover v cover... mind you jagers are more of a sniper squad than line infantry and should be priced accordingly...

yes there is no shame in asking for help... it was thru deliberation with a friend of mine that i developed a fairly inefficient counter to jagers by massing SU-76 fire + mine combo... regardless it is still a very inefficient method of countering them... and remains my chief method of actually beating the jagerspam...

ive actually had a few 2v2s where i broke the jagerspam consistently thanks to these tactics... unfortunately this is a very cost inefficient process and takes time to hit the critical mass required to obliterate the jagerspam... however there is no satisfaction that can come close to the feeling of wiping 2x jagers in a barrage of 4x SU-76... a beautiful sight indeed...

RIP any hope of a constructive discussion as per the usual for balance threads...

I'm gonna propose we ignore gbem's rambles from here on so the grown ups can actually have a proper discussion on how to improve JLI's balance rather than nerfing them into non existance. He made his point and that's fine even though no one agrees (that's fine too), now we should move on to actually bring something constructive to the table.


Cost increase to 280-300MP and ~70MU for the sniper seems to a good place to start. 1CP should stay to fit the squad into OKW's build order as this is good for diversity. Their performance is fine (a bit too cost effective right now), the main problem is that they overperform when spammed. Increasing their cost should fix this.

Get
In
Close
Range

Sitting in cover at 10 meters is not close range. Sitting in cover is exactly what jaegers are designed to counter. Get in close range and the penals will annihilate the jaegers. If there are already volks and jaegers in cover waiting to ambush you then you need more than just blobbing penals to deal with them. You already let them get a superior position than you, that's why you are losing these engagements.

Close range so STG Volks make mincemeat out of your squads while you're running after a piss-cheap 250 MP JLIs that shit even on Obers at mid/long ranges while costing barely above Partisans?

Thats some next level tactical play mate

Get
In
Close
Range

In this game, "get in close range" is very difficult. As a typical example, assault grenadiers have the most powerful close range DPS in early games, and even have a sprint skill that makes the "get in close range" even better, but it's hard to rate it as an OP unit. Panzer Grenadiers are very powerful in mid-range, close-range, but not OP units at all. Forcing a CQC unconditionally on your opponent in this game means that you give a huge penalty to your opponent. Most of the LMGs in this game are long-range specialized weapons. They decrease the DPS as they approach the close range. As I mentioned before, the "get in close range" in this game is not easy, so most LMGs in late games are very powerful. This is also the answer to why shock trooper and thompson paratroopers are not well visible in high rank games.This problem is synergistic with OKW's Volksgrenadiers' StG44 upgrade. Volksgrenadiers' StG44 upgrade gives a big buff on mid-range and close-range combat. It is called the OP in the general case that a single 250 manpower unit forces you to try CQC.
In addition, units that force a close range approach to the opponent in normal circumstances can force a one-side manpower bleed by pressing the "T" button once when the opponent approaches. This is why the long-range combat unit is so much preferred in this game.

I'm gonna propose we ignore gbem's rambles from here on so the grown ups can actually have a proper discussion on how to improve JLI's balance rather than nerfing them into non existance. He made his point and that's fine even though no one agrees (that's fine too), now we should move on to actually bring something constructive to the table.


Cost increase to 280-300MP and ~70MU for the sniper seems to a good place to start. 1CP should stay to fit the squad into OKW's build order as this is good for diversity. Their performance is fine (a bit too cost effective right now), the main problem is that they overperform when spammed. Increasing their cost should fix this.

+1

+1

+2 about Sanders post

Other option to prevent spamming JLI: Limit the number of JLI units who can be on the field to 2.

Cost increase to 280-300MP and ~70MU for the sniper seems to a good place to start. 1CP should stay to fit the squad into OKW's build order as this is good for diversity. Their performance is fine (a bit too cost effective right now), the main problem is that they overperform when spammed. Increasing their cost should fix this.

Reasonable suggestion, though I think 70 MU is too much for one rifle, maybe 60 MU?

JLIs are way too cost effective, if they are something like 280-290mp Im pretty sure it would be much better balanced. Maybe increase the muni of the sniper requirement to the standard 60 muni if they are still too strong.

JLIs are way too cost effective, if they are something like 280-290mp Im pretty sure it would be much better balanced. Maybe increase the muni of the sniper requirement to the standard 60 muni if they are still too strong.

I think that the sniper should be upped to 60 regardless. The volks STGs is such a powerful upgrade I think this should be a trade off kind of option instead of a delay kind of option.