Jaegers being good isn't a problem.
Five Jaegers being a terminator blob is. If the support squad's being spammed, something is wrong with it.
Increase light jaegars price
24 Dec 2018, 20:01 PM
#161
Posts: 3260
24 Dec 2018, 20:02 PM
#162
Posts: 1979
the muni snipe is a good way to make sov and brit snipers irrelevant...
if you do add a muni snipe make sure they are only doable against non sniper squads else jagers would be even more OP than they are now...
if you suggest a stun mechanic then yeah im up for it so long as you remove the boobytrap and sprint... reduce the crit to 50% and then add the stun mechanic so that I&R pathfinders dont get "nerfed to irrelevance" as you so claim...
jagers are still too cheap for their price even as a support squad... they make I&R pathfinders cry in a corner
if you do add a muni snipe make sure they are only doable against non sniper squads else jagers would be even more OP than they are now...
if you suggest a stun mechanic then yeah im up for it so long as you remove the boobytrap and sprint... reduce the crit to 50% and then add the stun mechanic so that I&R pathfinders dont get "nerfed to irrelevance" as you so claim...
Jaegers being good isn't a problem.
Five Jaegers being a terminator blob is. If the support squad's being spammed, something is wrong with it.
jagers are still too cheap for their price even as a support squad... they make I&R pathfinders cry in a corner
24 Dec 2018, 20:04 PM
#163
Posts: 571
340 mp and 6 cp makes them a lategame powerhouse DMR squad... note that even at 340mp they still murder penal quickly and cost efficiently so long as theyre screened by volks...
1 jager + 1 volks > 2 penals...
note that even if it did cost 340 mp the jager + volks combo is still cheaper than 2 penals..
I seriously think you are exaggerating the effectiveness of JLI + 1 volk.
I was fighting JLI spam and 2x penals were more than capable of just walking into the JLI + volk combo unless they have more than 2 volks squads with STG there.
Shock troops with For Mother Russia can outright sprint into them and wipe unless they retreat immediately.
24 Dec 2018, 20:05 PM
#164
Posts: 3260
the muni snipe is a good way to make sov and brit snipers irrelevant..
Then give it to Pathfinders too, and we can all have some nice sniper-free games.
24 Dec 2018, 20:06 PM
#165
Posts: 1979
I seriously think you are exaggerating the effectiveness of JLI + 1 volk.
I was fighting JLI spam and 2x penals were more than capable of just walking into the JLI + volk combo unless they have more than 2 volks squads with STG there.
not an exagerration.. tested on cheatmods in cover v cover engagement at midrange for the volk and long range (because sniper duh) for the jager... volk didnt get an stg and the 3x penals just engaged the volks... JLI smashed the penals to oblivion.... no jli man was lost... volks got exterminated though...
24 Dec 2018, 20:07 PM
#166
Posts: 571
not an exagerration.. tested on cheatmods in cover v cover engagement at midrange for the volk and long range (because sniper duh) for the jager... volk didnt get an stg and the 3x penals just engaged the volks... JLI smashed the penals to oblivion.... no jli man was lost... volks got exterminated though...
Why would the squads just sit there behind cover and plink? That is just playing into the strengths of the JLI's cover ignoring sniper rifle..
Just advance the penal into CQB and kill the JLI?
That is like saying "my rangers cannot beat STG obers while we both sit behind green cover at medium range".
24 Dec 2018, 20:08 PM
#167
Posts: 1979
Then give it to Pathfinders too, and we can all have some nice sniper-free games.
rework muh sov brit and ost snipers too... hey thats actually a good idea... why not make ALL snipers light recon squads with muni model snipe and an artillery barrage to kill MGs?
imma make a thread on this
Why would the squads just sit there behind cover and plink? That is just playing into the strengths of the JLI's cover ignoring sniper rifle..
Just advance the penal into CQB and kill the JLI?
That is like saying "my rangers cannot beat STG obers while we both sit behind green cover at medium range".
because realistically those volks would get STGs aswell and advancing against stg volks as penals just to get to JLI is committing suicide
24 Dec 2018, 22:03 PM
#168
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
not an exagerration.. tested on cheatmods in cover v cover engagement at midrange for the volk and long range (because sniper duh) for the jager... volk didnt get an stg and the 3x penals just engaged the volks... JLI smashed the penals to oblivion.... no jli man was lost... volks got exterminated though...
Wait lol you are basing your opinion entirely on one single test (ever heard of RNG?), that was even favoured towards JLI's strength in its unnatural setup?
Apparently you did the same for your claim that JLI are performing similar to Obers, which isn't true.
I've done a small test with multiple types of engagements and the Obers are clearly better in all types of engagements with any level of veterancy.
This is the outcome of these engagements against a Penal squad in comparable cover at medium to long ranges. Note how the Obers barely lost any HP in these engagements (the vet3-5 squads were at 95% hp before they started healing) while most JLI squads took at least one model loss and a significant amount of HP. They took significantly longer to kill all enemy models.
Based on this I'd say JLI are at about 80% of Obers' combat power at most. That's not counting the Obers STG44 upgrade nor the bundled grenade. This would put the JLI price at about 280MP and 55MU but nowhere near the 340MP you claimed.
25 Dec 2018, 00:34 AM
#169
Posts: 378
You're a joke.
You attack JLI, because they work in combined arms with volks.
You're argument that JLI is too good, is only when they're at optimal range in optimal conditions, they fall down really fast otherwise, but that doesn't matter to you, because you're too busy screaming for nerfs for JLI here and nerfs to VOLKS in other threads. You're brain dead.
They're not OP, if they did anything less, they wouldn't be used, just like before.
25 Dec 2018, 05:35 AM
#170
Posts: 1979
You're a joke.
You attack JLI, because they work in combined arms with volks.
You're argument that JLI is too good, is only when they're at optimal range in optimal conditions, they fall down really fast otherwise, but that doesn't matter to you, because you're too busy screaming for nerfs for JLI here and nerfs to VOLKS in other threads. You're brain dead.
They're not OP, if they did anything less, they wouldn't be used, just like before.
ok since you think theyre not op lets make the penals cost 250mp... buff penals to 250 mp pls
25 Dec 2018, 05:38 AM
#171
Posts: 1979
Wait lol you are basing your opinion entirely on one single test (ever heard of RNG?), that was even favoured towards JLI's strength in its unnatural setup?
Apparently you did the same for your claim that JLI are performing similar to Obers, which isn't true.
I've done a small test with multiple types of engagements and the Obers are clearly better in all types of engagements with any level of veterancy.
This is the outcome of these engagements against a Penal squad in comparable cover at medium to long ranges. Note how the Obers barely lost any HP in these engagements (the vet3-5 squads were at 95% hp before they started healing) while most JLI squads took at least one model loss and a significant amount of HP. They took significantly longer to kill all enemy models.
Based on this I'd say JLI are at about 80% of Obers' combat power at most. That's not counting the Obers STG44 upgrade nor the bundled grenade. This would put the JLI price at about 280MP and 55MU but nowhere near the 340MP you claimed.
jagers still are infiltrating squads and have other abilities to contrast that of penals or obers... theyre the equivalent of a mortar or a sniper requiring screening in order to become effective... maybe 340 is a bit too harsh but note that its original price was 300 and it was still better than pathfinders then... even without performance buffs
25 Dec 2018, 06:49 AM
#172
Posts: 607
Infiltration infantry should have 2 way of entering the field.
Being able to be built from HQ at normal price and able to be spawn from ambient at premium cost.
That would help balancing this unis allot.
On the other side Pathfinder seem to be spammed allot also.
I like this idea.
25 Dec 2018, 07:15 AM
#173
Posts: 142
I hope relic will listen to top players only or at least think before to do something. Srly, when there is obvious problem with JLI some people still say it's totally fine.
And saying that it can be countered by light vehicle. Do you know what you need before going light vehicle? You need fuel, map control. No way to do that if you face JLI from opponent with equal skills or even less skill. You cant rush right into JLI because there is volk who can faust and raketten sitting there. And all this things causes snowball effect.
I dont want to continue, although I could give more concrete examples. I just hope relic talks with top players. Since making such threads is always battle between axis and allies biased people.
And saying that it can be countered by light vehicle. Do you know what you need before going light vehicle? You need fuel, map control. No way to do that if you face JLI from opponent with equal skills or even less skill. You cant rush right into JLI because there is volk who can faust and raketten sitting there. And all this things causes snowball effect.
I dont want to continue, although I could give more concrete examples. I just hope relic talks with top players. Since making such threads is always battle between axis and allies biased people.
25 Dec 2018, 08:12 AM
#174
Posts: 1979
thats because NaOCl here wants to win with cheesy strategies... despite the fact that JLI are ridiculously more cost efficient than he can comprehend... a nerf back to the original price of 300 is a good start... or nerfing to 280 + reduce the crit to 60%
25 Dec 2018, 13:52 PM
#175
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
Why would the squads just sit there behind cover and plink? That is just playing into the strengths of the JLI's cover ignoring sniper rifle..
Just advance the penal into CQB and kill the JLI?
That is like saying "my rangers cannot beat STG obers while we both sit behind green cover at medium range".
My shock troops behind GREEN COVER lost a maximum range engagement vs LMG Obers in ZERO COVER! Plis buff Shocks!
25 Dec 2018, 14:26 PM
#176
Posts: 810
nerf this fucking OP unit
250mp -> 280mp
heavy cover bonus 90% -> 60%
250mp -> 280mp
heavy cover bonus 90% -> 60%
25 Dec 2018, 19:27 PM
#177
Posts: 3053
I just wanna point out that besides the ongoing penals vs JLI comparison there’s another comparison that should be taken into account.
When compared to the only other similar squad in the game (pathfinders) JLIs are straight up way better. Their sniper rifle is more accurate and crits at almost double the hp, which more than makes up for the fact that they only have 1 as opposed to paths’ 2, and they also have sprint, a fairly cheap (40 muni IIRC) and very effective booby trap (is it still supposed to kill as many models as possible? I had thought they were going to cap it at 2-3 models like mines or something for whatever reason) and an ambush camo first strike bonus. Pathfinders can make beacons. Paths are also more expensive initially for some reason. The only things paths have going for them are access to BARs and being 0cp.
When compared to the only other similar squad in the game (pathfinders) JLIs are straight up way better. Their sniper rifle is more accurate and crits at almost double the hp, which more than makes up for the fact that they only have 1 as opposed to paths’ 2, and they also have sprint, a fairly cheap (40 muni IIRC) and very effective booby trap (is it still supposed to kill as many models as possible? I had thought they were going to cap it at 2-3 models like mines or something for whatever reason) and an ambush camo first strike bonus. Pathfinders can make beacons. Paths are also more expensive initially for some reason. The only things paths have going for them are access to BARs and being 0cp.
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25 Dec 2018, 19:34 PM
#178
Posts: 1979
another thing to note is that the old 300mp JLI squad pre buff was already superior to pathfinders... they had 70% crit with multiple utility abilities... after its improved performance due to the patch it outperforms paths by a considerable margin now... taking to account the original cost of JLI (300MP) and its fairly balanced pricing 340 is a good price for JLI...
if 280 then the crit has to go down to 60%
if 280 then the crit has to go down to 60%
25 Dec 2018, 20:16 PM
#179
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
another thing to note is that the old 300mp JLI squad pre buff was already superior to pathfinders... they had 70% crit with multiple utility abilities... after its improved performance due to the patch it outperforms paths by a considerable margin now... taking to account the original cost of JLI (300MP) and its fairly balanced pricing 340 is a good price for JLI...
if 280 then the crit has to go down to 60%
No they where not.
They where very expensive, they couldn't get vet and their basic use was to spawn near a sniper and try to kill them.
The main issue with weapons that critical kill is when they are available in units that can be spammed.
My suggestion would be to either increase the CP of these units or greatly increase the CD of the ability so that one can use up to 1-2 of these units in his army composition.
25 Dec 2018, 20:20 PM
#180
Posts: 372
All you see in 2v2 is JLI blobs. Only the willfully blind ignore this obvious problem.
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