Not to drag this into a larger conversation, but why can they still infiltrate? Why can anything still infiltrate? I don't want to hear "flavor" and "style", because there are a million other ways for us to make infantry squads unique. The sniper upgrade alone seems to do just that for JLI.
With how much this game is about good flanking vs. proper positioning, why on Earth is there a feature of any squad to spawn in buildings. It's just stupid, and I honestly wish it were removed in every case from Partisans all the way to Stormtroopers.
Increase light jaegars price
27 Dec 2018, 04:09 AM
#241
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
27 Dec 2018, 04:47 AM
#242
Posts: 261
Not to drag this into a larger conversation, but why can they still infiltrate? Why can anything still infiltrate? I don't want to hear "flavor" and "style", because there are a million other ways for us to make infantry squads unique. The sniper upgrade alone seems to do just that for JLI.
With how much this game is about good flanking vs. proper positioning, why on Earth is there a feature of any squad to spawn in buildings. It's just stupid, and I honestly wish it were removed in every case from Partisans all the way to Stormtroopers.
Maybe a separated thread?
开弓没有回头箭。
27 Dec 2018, 06:30 AM
#243
Posts: 1979
I'm gonna propose we ignore gbem's rambles from here on so the grown ups can actually have a proper discussion on how to improve JLI's balance rather than nerfing them into non existance. He made his point and that's fine even though no one agrees (that's fine too), now we should move on to actually bring something constructive to the table.
Cost increase to 280-300MP and ~70MU for the sniper seems to a good place to start. 1CP should stay to fit the squad into OKW's build order as this is good for diversity. Their performance is fine (a bit too cost effective right now), the main problem is that they overperform when spammed. Increasing their cost should fix this.
understand that they will continue to massacre penals for a 280mp cost unless the crit is reduced aswell
and explain to me how reduction to 40% crit (which was my suggestion) is nerfing to non existence? that just brings them down to pathfinder levels and pathfinders are not nonexistent
27 Dec 2018, 06:34 AM
#244
Posts: 810
Get
In
Close
Range
Sitting in cover at 10 meters is not close range. Sitting in cover is exactly what jaegers are designed to counter. Get in close range and the penals will annihilate the jaegers. If there are already volks and jaegers in cover waiting to ambush you then you need more than just blobbing penals to deal with them. You already let them get a superior position than you, that's why you are losing these engagements.
Close the range? who dont know?
If u close the range to JLI, strumpio and stg volk crush your unit
27 Dec 2018, 07:43 AM
#245
Posts: 378
Close the range? who dont know?
If u close the range to JLI, strumpio and stg volk crush your unit
That's called "combined arms"...
In this situation you can't say whether its volks or JLI too strong.
27 Dec 2018, 07:45 AM
#246
Posts: 378
understand that they will continue to massacre penals for a 280mp cost unless the crit is reduced aswell
and explain to me how reduction to 40% crit (which was my suggestion) is nerfing to non existence? that just brings them down to pathfinder levels and pathfinders are not nonexistent
That makes them worse than pre-patch, when they weren't even used.
Their performance is fine, their cost is too low.
280-290Mp is fair, considering they have to buy weapons.
Also, they have no AT.
So use light supported vehicles rather than expecting penals to walk over everything with no resistance.
27 Dec 2018, 07:48 AM
#247
Posts: 1979
That's called "combined arms"...
In this situation you can't say whether its volks or JLI too strong.
when your "combined arms" beats the "combined arms" of quite literally all other axis and allied combinations you know its OP
penals + sniper + guards? nah JLI + volks + rak is still better... grens + pak 40 + sniper? even JLI can beat that alone... rifles + mortar + atgun/RE zooks? JLI will crush that outright... oooh what about IS + sniper + at gun + sappers? nah JLI cream that aswell...
27 Dec 2018, 07:57 AM
#248
Posts: 1979
That makes them worse than pre-patch, when they weren't even used.
Their performance is fine, their cost is too low.
a 250mp jager with 40% crit is pathfinder levels of power... if youre saying 40% crit is useless then youre saying pathfinders are useless which is blatantly false... note that pathfinders dont get AT aswell
280-290Mp is fair, considering they have to buy weapons.
Also, they have no AT.
penals have no AT unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot and JLI slaughter penals at all ranges...
280mp penal crushing infiltrating stealthed jager sniper team with boobytrap sprint and salvage is ridiculously OP...
So use light supported vehicles rather than expecting penals to walk over everything with no resistance.
SU-76 barrage is quite literally the only method of gaining parity with JLI...
27 Dec 2018, 08:06 AM
#249
Posts: 378
JLI slaughter penals at all ranges...
No, entirely wrong, you clearly don't play this game.
27 Dec 2018, 08:08 AM
#250
Posts: 378
a 250mp jager with 40% crit is pathfinder levels of power... if youre saying 40% crit is useless then youre saying pathfinders are useless which is blatantly false... note that pathfinders dont get AT aswell
Pathfinders can pick up bazooka's.
Pathfinders also go against 4 man squads as well as volks.
27 Dec 2018, 08:10 AM
#251
Posts: 810
Pathfinders can pick up bazooka's.
Pathfinders also go against 4 man squads as well as volks.
Normal USF player dont give bazooka to pathfinder
have u ever played USF?
27 Dec 2018, 08:17 AM
#252
Posts: 571
Normal USF player dont give bazooka to pathfinder
have u ever played USF?
Normal USF players do give them BARs though, which increases their efficiency massively since they can now reliably bring models below snipe threshold.
27 Dec 2018, 08:39 AM
#253
Posts: 1979
Pathfinders can pick up bazooka's.
Pathfinders also go against 4 man squads as well as volks.
what kind of a retard gives zooks to paths?
paths dont wipe volks or grens or obers at medium and close ranges... paths are light recon and long range troops
27 Dec 2018, 08:40 AM
#254
Posts: 1979
Normal USF players do give them BARs though, which increases their efficiency massively since they can now reliably bring models below snipe threshold.
you have to give them double bars to be effective... thats alot of munition in contrast to the 45 muni of jagers... and mind you double bar paths are on the level of jager light infantry which highlights how OP they are..
27 Dec 2018, 10:33 AM
#255
Posts: 130
Pathfinder
290mp, can not be deployed from buildings.
Target size 1. (JLI 0.8)
No ambush bouns.
Can not sprint.
40%hp critical hit only save 1 more shot to kill a model.(if not a sniper)
If compared with pathfinder,JLI should be a 340mp unit.
EDIT: And m1d is prior than bar, meaning when pathfinders lose models they will use m1d rather than bar. It's not a good idea to arm ur pathfinders with double bar unless u have excess muni.
EDIT: I don't actually mean JLI should be 340mp, 290mp and remove the ambush bouns(or mive it to vet3) may be fine.
Meanwhile, because most factions got price reduction of their infs, why not USF?
Pathfinders are obviously overpriced. 260mp or so will be fine.
Paratroopers may also get a price reduction to 340.
And REs should never require 25mp(the same as volks) to reinforced.
290mp, can not be deployed from buildings.
Target size 1. (JLI 0.8)
No ambush bouns.
Can not sprint.
40%hp critical hit only save 1 more shot to kill a model.(if not a sniper)
If compared with pathfinder,JLI should be a 340mp unit.
EDIT: And m1d is prior than bar, meaning when pathfinders lose models they will use m1d rather than bar. It's not a good idea to arm ur pathfinders with double bar unless u have excess muni.
EDIT: I don't actually mean JLI should be 340mp, 290mp and remove the ambush bouns(or mive it to vet3) may be fine.
Meanwhile, because most factions got price reduction of their infs, why not USF?
Pathfinders are obviously overpriced. 260mp or so will be fine.
Paratroopers may also get a price reduction to 340.
And REs should never require 25mp(the same as volks) to reinforced.
27 Dec 2018, 10:55 AM
#256
Posts: 3260
Hiking the price up to 300 isn't much of a setback if you're only building one or two, but it'll kick JLI spammers hard.
27 Dec 2018, 13:49 PM
#257
Posts: 142
I agree with gbem here. People dont listen to him or pointing out things without seeing his idea. I already metioned same thing 3-4 pages ago and I totally agree with him in this question.
27 Dec 2018, 14:13 PM
#258
Posts: 378
what kind of a retard gives zooks to paths?
paths dont wipe volks or grens or obers at medium and close ranges... paths are light recon and long range troops
I didn't say it was a good idea, just that it was possible, because you said Pathfinders have no AT.
Also, you said penals LOSE TO JLI at all ranges, as far as I'm concerned, this irrevocably proves that you're mentally stunted.
JLI wipe nothing at medium or close range. They have an inverse DPS curve, as in, the closer you get to them, the lower their DPS is, unlike volks.
I have made this argument before though, every time you come back with the argument that volks stop you getting close. THATS COMBINED ARMS.
Your brain is mush.
27 Dec 2018, 14:43 PM
#259
Posts: 1979
I didn't say it was a good idea, just that it was possible, because you said Pathfinders have no AT.
and if you did it then you are a retard... congratulations
Also, you said penals LOSE TO JLI at all ranges, as far as I'm concerned, this irrevocably proves that you're mentally stunted.
JLI wipe nothing at medium or close range. They have an inverse DPS curve, as in, the closer you get to them, the lower their DPS is, unlike volks.
false and false... it seems you have a problem with your reading comprehension... ive already laid the test data on penals vs jagers at range 10 and 20... read my posts before you open your mouth
I have made this argument before though, every time you come back with the argument that volks stop you getting close. THATS COMBINED ARMS.
you still show a lack of reading comprehension despite explanation.... very well ill indulge you one last time...
when your "combined arms" beats the "combined arms" of quite literally all other axis and allied combinations you know its OP
penals + sniper + guards? nah JLI + volks + rak is still better... grens + pak 40 + sniper? even JLI can beat that alone... rifles + mortar + atgun/RE zooks? JLI will crush that outright... oooh what about IS + sniper + at gun + sappers? nah JLI cream that aswell...
Your brain is mush.
an ad hominem... is this all you are capable of?
27 Dec 2018, 15:01 PM
#260
Posts: 1392
So, do we now have any ideas to balance them? You guys are turning in circle.
We have:
- they are too cheap
- they are too spam-able
- they become too strong with G43-upgrade.
They become cheaper and lower CP to send them in earlyer, that is good... But I still think it would be better to remove Jägers and make Obersoldate arrive earlyer, or make a Jäger-upgrade for them.
OR
- Making them 300mp again and an unit-limitation.
OR
- remove them, replace them with an Jäger-upgrade for Obersoldaten (like STGs).
We have:
- they are too cheap
- they are too spam-able
- they become too strong with G43-upgrade.
They become cheaper and lower CP to send them in earlyer, that is good... But I still think it would be better to remove Jägers and make Obersoldate arrive earlyer, or make a Jäger-upgrade for them.
OR
- Making them 300mp again and an unit-limitation.
OR
- remove them, replace them with an Jäger-upgrade for Obersoldaten (like STGs).
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