Have Axis blobs become worse?

Hey guys,

I have played the three Allied factions exclusively in the last 2-3 months and in the last week I noticed that the games went way more inf heavy.
Is this just a personal perception or might the patch be some kind of a reason?

It somehow feels like the factions have switched roles somehow. Back after UKF release, there was still this "Allies = Early Game, Axis = Late Game", but currently I have to struggle myself as Allied player to the end of the game (and still there Axis have really good tools).

I know that Allied MGs are meant to kill, not to suppress, but at the moment I'd love to switch the Vickers (which was my favorite MG before) with an MG42.

Also Volks and Grens feel like really durable now, while there is almost no UKF game where I do not lose all my inf sections at a given time in the game (which is obviously l2p but still).

It is just the way meta progress with this new patch and infantry being much more effective, because with axis faction you are always being punished badly in many spots if you start playing too defensive, so mobile infantry and aggressive play to counter allied blobbing is a effective play style.

And axis blobs are just now what allied blobbing has been for past 2 years.

I think we all wish we could have an MG42 instead of what we get.

Hey guys,

I have played the three Allied factions exclusively in the last 2-3 months and in the last week I noticed that the games went way more inf heavy.
Is this just a personal perception or might the patch be some kind of a reason?

It somehow feels like the factions have switched roles somehow. Back after UKF release, there was still this "Allies = Early Game, Axis = Late Game", but currently I have to struggle myself as Allied player to the end of the game (and still there Axis have really good tools).

I know that Allied MGs are meant to kill, not to suppress, but at the moment I'd love to switch the Vickers (which was my favorite MG before) with an MG42.

Also Volks and Grens feel like really durable now, while there is almost no UKF game where I do not lose all my inf sections at a given time in the game (which is obviously l2p but still).

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Vickers got nerfed. Maxim is nerfed. What did you expect?
Also, tons of newbies recently, so it makes sense to see INF blobs.

Side note: They keep nerfing AOE and Suppression, so...
"Blobs are not desired, but we'll get rid of all anti blob tools or nerf them"

I personally haven't noticed much difference maybe slightly more OST spam to try out the 5 man grens or ostruppen builds.

I personally haven't noticed much difference maybe slightly more OST spam to try out the 5 man grens or ostruppen builds.

I am totally out of the loop - how exactly are 5 men Grens working? Is there a global upgrade now or some kind of Vet bonus like the one for Echelons?

I am totally out of the loop - how exactly are 5 men Grens working? Is there a global upgrade now or some kind of Vet bonus like the one for Echelons?

Its a doctrinal ability in German Infatry called Vet squad leaders. Basically makes grens, pios and pgrens (Im not sure about pgrens). 5 man Grens also get 1 g43.

Grens get a RA and accuracy bonus so they wouldnt be horrible late game. pios get a buff to repair speed.

The upgrade is pretty good. Also the mg42 upgrade is locked if you go 5 man so you won't see 5 man mg42 terminators running around unless a lmg drops.

OKW has always been a blob faction, as best as I can tell and the 5man gren upgrade basically makes them a good fit for that too.

I did not notice a sharp change as much as I noticed that people are clustering around the two new commanders and that it works rather well.

I have noticed USF is blobbing less, probably in part because of the tech changes no longer more or less forcing a 3rd rifle squad.

I guess at the higher elo levels the succuess of certain teams in the 2v2 tournament plays a role too. They have shown blobbing is not just something that noobs do because they can´t micro but actually the best thing to do if you really want to win.

A friend suggested that when too many units are near each other they receive a stacking RA malus that causes them to be easier to hit -- after all, if you have 100 guys near each other a stray bullet is more likely to hit one of them than if only 10 guys are near each other.

I know small arms are basically hit scan, so having scatter hits won't work, but a change like this would fundamentally alter things IMO.

It would also mean doing stuff like AT-gun-walling would make them easier to pick off too.

A friend suggested that when too many units are near each other they receive a stacking RA malus that causes them to be easier to hit -- after all, if you have 100 guys near each other a stray bullet is more likely to hit one of them than if only 10 guys are near each other.

I know small arms are basically hit scan, so having scatter hits won't work, but a change like this would fundamentally alter things IMO.

It would also mean doing stuff like AT-gun-walling would make them easier to pick off too.

I think this was suggested and tried already.

The result was that it assigns an aura around each model, if you got a hundred guys that puts a huge strain on the processor which means a lot more lag coming out of basically nowhere.

1v1 and 2v2 games might not be affected that much but the bigger 3v3 or 4v4 and especially the custom game ones with modded pop cap would be hell on most computers.

Of course I could be entirely wrong but this is my experience from a couple of years ago from CoH, I have a friend that is editing the Great War mod and tried that out to reduce blobbing effectiveness.

In the end the best solution to the problem was like in the real war, having deadly machine guns that are able to both suppress and kill anybody too stupid to stay in front of it for too long.

Would assigning the aura to each squad instead of each model work?

I wouldn't actually want it to scale with model count anyway, but squad count, since that would arbitrarily punish high model squads who are already worse off on a per model basis.

Well, you'll definitely see a lot of blobs, but not only on the Axis side. But i will agree on the heavy infantry play that Axis now deploy which favors light vehicle play, especially the new M20 which is a great tool. One thing that i'm currently questioning is why the majority of OKW players go for Sturm Offizier and blob THAT much.

A friend suggested that when too many units are near each other they receive a stacking RA malus that causes them to be easier to hit -- after all, if you have 100 guys near each other a stray bullet is more likely to hit one of them than if only 10 guys are near each other.

I know small arms are basically hit scan, so having scatter hits won't work, but a change like this would fundamentally alter things IMO.

It would also mean doing stuff like AT-gun-walling would make them easier to pick off too.

Several assault Rifles, SMG and all HMG already have scatter. You can try it on cheatmods by having a singular invulnerable model and putting several squads behind it.

Several assault Rifles, SMG and all HMG already have scatter. You can try it on cheatmods by having a singular invulnerable model and putting several squads behind it.

Yeah but a blob can still steamroll those, but giving a RA malus means even rifles would hit more frequently.

Tho I do know what you mean, it's why a sturmpioneer can reduce a 4 man squad to 4% hp but not drop a model.

Yeah but a blob can still steamroll those, but giving a RA malus means even rifles would hit more frequently.

Tho I do know what you mean, it's why a sturmpioneer can reduce a 4 man squad to 4% hp but not drop a model.

I'm just stating that the mechanic is already in the game. Scatter on "hit scan" weapons.

I don't think "blobs" need debuffing rather than the counters to be improved (in the case of MGs). Unfortunately due to how the mechanic works, incremental accuracy is done on model by model case instead of squad base.

Biggest problems with blobs comes from 2 issues which i don't think are solvable in CoH2. One, is the one i mentioned with MGs and incremental acc. The other one is yellow cover generation through explosive ordnance. The game would be in a much better state if 360° yellow cover craters would only provide accuracy benefits instead of also applying 50% suppression resistance. This is one of the things i'll like to see be applied for CoH3. The usage of more specific type of cover, even if the display is the same (grey, yellow, green red).


Talking about blobs: people call blob and spam to whatever they get annoyed at.

2 MG/sniper/paks = spam.

3 units close to each other = blob.

Force concentration =/= blobbing. There's also the fact that most people play teamgames on which you have more players in the mix and several will play with only one colour for the enemy team. Guess what happens when you have the same amount of VP and strat point as in 1v1 but with double to quadruple the amount of resources and popcap to play with.

Yes blobbing is still effective and allies don't get the tools to easily counter until units like the Scott and kat show up. Brits I can't comment on.

That being said its easy to punish blobbing but its also wayyyy to potent more than it has any right to be and that is b/c the shear amount of CQC upgrades OKW blobs get. I can chuck nades all day long but when it comes down to brass tax blobbing is not punished enough in coh2 (same goes for USF blobbers).


I'm not rly sure how to fix besides make cover changes or make allied MGs simply have a higher AOE suppression than they do now

• Vicker's kills the model half the time and ROF and turn rate makes for an issue dealing with low health yet larger/wide blobs
  
• .50 cal suppresses but never pins
  
• Maxim small fire arc, cost, and long set-up time make it hard to pin a lager blob and requires the user to micro focus 1 unit but half the time you'll get flame naded out and get stuck in deathloop

get grenades, now that they are really cheap they are well worth it.
as soviets use ZiS barrage as blob denial, all you need is one shell to ruin some blobber day. Soviet mortar is also okay but kinda expensive IMO

So it has to be a per model basis. Well, good to know I guess.

Either way my resolution is to adapt. I am not fond of demanding the game change when things don't work my way.

The only actual thing that I think needs to be changed for axis is the Sector Assault call in which as of now is far too difficult to counter, even with AA, and on certain maps can effectively win an entire fuel+vp section (think Port of Hamburg).

So it has to be a per model basis. Well, good to know I guess.

Either way my resolution is to adapt. I am not fond of demanding the game change when things don't work my way.

I disagree. The game doesn't work it's own way in this point. The in-game HMG description says "requires proper positioning. effective at dealing with massed infantry". Massed infantry = blobs, right?

So ANY HMG should be able to deal with blob. If i need 2-3 maxims to stop OKW blob, i'd say it's not effective. And the numbers show that MG42 at least 2 timer more suppressing than maxim.

Maxim may have more DPS, larger squad, faster set-up and pack-up time, but it is ineffective at dealing with massed infantry.