OKW 221
17 Dec 2018, 15:29 PM
#41
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
OKWs early game is more than agressive enough without a Commander to help. If we want the 221 to scale better that's one thing, but increasing it's shock value is the last thing on Earth I want to see.
17 Dec 2018, 18:48 PM
#42
Posts: 51
The 221 is really good at the moment, I mean the biggest problem I had with it is finding out that a 50cal can take it out in 5 seconds. But against standard riflemen and conscripts and tommies, it does its job. Then when it can be upgraded, it becomes a mobile cache +
It can spot tanks through the fog of war, which in late game can be used to annihilate tanks with a Sturmtiger.
The only real issue is that its vet is rather unrewarding, I mean vet 5 gives Riegel Mines is amazing, but vet 5 requires you to commit massive war crimes for 30 minutes of game time.
I suggest moving riegels to a lower veterancy, while on vet 5 maybe give it adding extra resource income when hulled down on a point?
It can spot tanks through the fog of war, which in late game can be used to annihilate tanks with a Sturmtiger.
The only real issue is that its vet is rather unrewarding, I mean vet 5 gives Riegel Mines is amazing, but vet 5 requires you to commit massive war crimes for 30 minutes of game time.
I suggest moving riegels to a lower veterancy, while on vet 5 maybe give it adding extra resource income when hulled down on a point?
17 Dec 2018, 19:25 PM
#43
Posts: 1220
The 221 is really good at the moment, I mean the biggest problem I had with it is finding out that a 50cal can take it out in 5 seconds. But against standard riflemen and conscripts and tommies, it does its job. Then when it can be upgraded, it becomes a mobile cache +i agree with that what's u say but i think only problem is that 221/3 vet slowly meantime WC truck vet really fast or maybe it just my felings
It can spot tanks through the fog of war, which in late game can be used to annihilate tanks with a Sturmtiger.
The only real issue is that its vet is rather unrewarding, I mean vet 5 gives Riegel Mines is amazing, but vet 5 requires you to commit massive war crimes for 30 minutes of game time.
I suggest moving riegels to a lower veterancy, while on vet 5 maybe give it adding extra resource income when hulled down on a point?
17 Dec 2018, 19:39 PM
#44
Posts: 1217
The ressource boost is insane. Parked it on a fuel point and got +7 more fuel income than my teammate. It really pays off in the long run.
17 Dec 2018, 20:05 PM
#45
Posts: 261
Why everyone is talking about 223 here? Isn't this thread about the underperformance of the 20 fuel cost 221?
223 is good, but 221 is trash for its price.
223 is good, but 221 is trash for its price.
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17 Dec 2018, 20:37 PM
#46
Posts: 13
Why everyone is talking about 223 here? Isn't this thread about the underperformance of the 20 fuel cost 221?
223 is good, but 221 is trash for its price.
Well because they are inherently related to eachother.
Besides that enough is talked about the combat ability of 221, so maybe reread the posts?
17 Dec 2018, 21:03 PM
#47
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The ressource boost is insane. Parked it on a fuel point and got +7 more fuel income than my teammate. It really pays off in the long run.
It pretty much doubles what you put it on.
Why everyone is talking about 223 here? Isn't this thread about the underperformance of the 20 fuel cost 221?
223 is good, but 221 is trash for its price.
Its not balanced to be used as 221.
Its balanced to be used as 223.
Being able to call 221 first just adds another early game option for rather stale OKW openings, but 221 is supposed to be upgraded to 223 as soon as you can and for that reason, its "underperformance" is completely irrelevant.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Dec 2018, 21:12 PM
#48
Posts: 261
It pretty much doubles what you put it on.
Its not balanced to be used as 221.
Its balanced to be used as 223.
Being able to call 221 first just adds another early game option for rather stale OKW openings, but 221 is supposed to be upgraded to 223 as soon as you can and for that reason, its "underperformance" is completely irrelevant.
But the rest of units are good without upgrade, like UC, Ost's HF. I don't think 221 should be the only unit that is trash before upgrading.
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17 Dec 2018, 21:18 PM
#49
Posts: 261
It pretty much doubles what you put it on.
Its not balanced to be used as 221.
Its balanced to be used as 223.
Being able to call 221 first just adds another early game option for rather stale OKW openings, but 221 is supposed to be upgraded to 223 as soon as you can and for that reason, its "underperformance" is completely irrelevant.
My suggestion is reducing 221's fuel cost but increasing 223 upgrade cost, so 223's cost will be the same but 221 will be cheaper.
And it will delay OKW's T2 or T3 less.
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17 Dec 2018, 23:41 PM
#50
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
But the rest of units are good without upgrade, like UC, Ost's HF. I don't think 221 should be the only unit that is trash before upgrading.
I'd say keep complaining and 221 will be removed and only 223 at 320/30 will be for purchase once HQ truck is placed.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Dec 2018, 00:07 AM
#51
Posts: 261
I'd say keep complaining and 221 will be removed and only 223 at 320/30 will be for purchase once HQ truck is placed.
Are you implying that M5 should come out with forced AA upgrade?
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18 Dec 2018, 00:08 AM
#52
Posts: 5279
It pretty much doubles what you put it on.
Its not balanced to be used as 221.
Its balanced to be used as 223.
Being able to call 221 first just adds another early game option for rather stale OKW openings, but 221 is supposed to be upgraded to 223 as soon as you can and for that reason, its "underperformance" is completely irrelevant.
Then cut the crap and spawn it as a 223 with the appropriate cost, as they did with the 222. If it's supposed to be a cache and only a cache why bother with anything else?
I feel like the 221 only exists so there is FINALY something that CE can fend off.
#stalinwept
18 Dec 2018, 00:17 AM
#53
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Are you implying that M5 should come out with forced AA upgrade?
Apples to oranges.
1) M5 has very clear role both pre and post upgrade.
2) M5s upgrade is an upgrade to base unit, not 2nd half of that base unit in both, cost and performance.
Then cut the crap and spawn it as a 223 with the appropriate cost, as they did with the 222. If it's supposed to be a cache and only a cache why bother with anything else?
I feel like the 221 only exists so there is FINALY something that CE can fend off.
Was it up to me, it would be like that, modders felt there should be something else/new to volkspam opening, so we got 221. We never got official rationale that I'm aware off(could've missed it in tremendously long idea or feedback thread), but I don't see any other logical reason why they would do it like that.
And, well, there was always kubel for CEs, 221 performs better then kubel.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Dec 2018, 03:43 AM
#54
Posts: 658
It is not easy for 221 to get vet2. Here is the reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iet6Nk_ZFkk
The 221 survived the whole game, but it only reached vet2 around 36 minute.
This is a General Problem with OKW, units should not be expected to commit mass genocide over the course of an hour in order to get to Vet 5 in a single match.
18 Dec 2018, 13:28 PM
#55
Posts: 5279
Apples to oranges.
1) M5 has very clear role both pre and post upgrade.
2) M5s upgrade is an upgrade to base unit, not 2nd half of that base unit in both, cost and performance.
Was it up to me, it would be like that, modders felt there should be something else/new to volkspam opening, so we got 221. We never got official rationale that I'm aware off(could've missed it in tremendously long idea or feedback thread), but I don't see any other logical reason why they would do it like that.
And, well, there was always kubel for CEs, 221 performs better then kubel.
If the 221 is going to be in game it needs to be useful and no, dropping a med crate does not warrant being 20 fuel and behind a tech. The clown car is less expensive with less tech can garrison and beat the 221. That's not good balance. The unit exists, it needs a spot in the game.
#stalinwept
18 Dec 2018, 13:46 PM
#56
Posts: 1660
OKW has invisible AT GUN at T0.
If you have this problem as OKW, its specifically because you have chosen to have it by not building rak.
That's how you counter this thing.
Its not my bias that is showing, its your denial and refusal to use existing hardcounters for specific units that's showing here, nothing else.
I am very sorry to disappoint you here, but relic can't patch a noob out of anyone, you need to do it yourself.
Funny how using resources for an at upgrade weakens early game but using resources for a unit with upkeep cost and pop that won't ever be used again before min 10 doesn't.
The difference is....raketen only counters ground and walls.
18 Dec 2018, 14:00 PM
#57
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Funny how using resources for an at upgrade weakens early game but using resources for a unit with upkeep cost and pop that won't ever be used again before min 10 doesn't.
The difference is....raketen only counters ground and walls.
Soooo, you are not capping points before 10th minute?
And having ATG on field before light tanks arrive ENSURES oppoent will be much less aggressive with that light, giving you more breathing room.
Also, what the hell you are going on about with the resource on AT upgrade?
You're trying to refer to USF and UKF need to research racks?
You do realize that directly impacts timing of tech and lights in early game, while getting puppchen does not in the slightest AND allows you to have a hardcounter for these lights as well?
Genuine question, have you ever played 1v1 or 2v2 at rank better then 500? Because by denying usefulness of rakketen in completely shutting down shock light vehicle play in very early game(M3, UC and now dodge) making opponent waste resources for nothing AND allowing you to have a capper AND already on field ATG when its needed, you talk like someone who wasn't even close to that.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Dec 2018, 14:12 PM
#58
Posts: 1660
Soooo, you are not capping points before 10th minute?
And having ATG on field before light tanks arrive ENSURES oppoent will be much less aggressive with that light, giving you more breathing room.
Also, what the hell you are going on about with the resource on AT upgrade?
You've quoted wrong post or what?
Obviously, what a better way to use an at gun than cap points ?
Eager to give away the at gun position to the enemy, open a window for him to damage my NO GREEN COVER shield atg and eventually having to replace 25mp models while he can rush any flame clown car OR hit retreat and still lose control over it as the enemy can rush any clown car.
At least i disrupted enemy VP for like...1 minute ?
What a load of steaming pile of crap.
In GCS2 raketen isn't even 5th unit in BO and you are REEEEEing about "muh T0 gun".
No AT gun will ever be an optimal choice EVER that soon in the match.
Even US atg, which has the highest dps in game and is the best against light vehicles, that has 60 range, full accuracy and higher rof, is a regrettable choice after 30 fuel...and you keep reeeing about Tier 0 atg being a viable ultra early vehicles counter.
Meanwhile at snares for ruskie "damage early game" so as OKW must and "can" counter early game vehicles with shitketen at nade for cons is "not a viable option"
Gimme a break.
18 Dec 2018, 14:25 PM
#59
Posts: 5279
Obviously, what a better way to use an at gun than cap points ?
Eager to give away the at gun position to the enemy, open a window for him to damage my NO GREEN COVER shield atg and eventually having to replace 25mp models while he can rush any flame clown car OR hit retreat and still lose control over it as the enemy can rush any clown car.
At least i disrupted enemy VP for like...1 minute ?
What a load of steaming pile of crap.
In GCS2 raketen isn't even 5th unit in BO and you are REEEEEing about "muh T0 gun".
No AT gun will ever be an optimal choice EVER that soon in the match.
Even US atg, which has the highest dps in game and is the best against light vehicles, that has 60 range, full accuracy and higher rof, is a regrettable choice after 30 fuel...and you keep reeeing about Tier 0 atg being a viable ultra early vehicles counter.
Meanwhile at snares for ruskie "damage early game" so as OKW must and "can" counter early game vehicles with shitketen at nade for cons is "not a viable option"
Gimme a break.
25 fuel and 125mp IS a settback if got too soon. The fact that you need to pay for extra on one of the worst units in the game to have what all other factions get for free hurts ones soul.
#stalinwept
18 Dec 2018, 14:35 PM
#60
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
For any complaints about the 221/223's vetting speed, try to remember that it gets shared veterancy.
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