Overnerfed Brummbar. Why am I not surprised?

u cant bring statistics here.. thats not fair. Axis cant get have a reliable blobb stopper

How about the statistic that a t34/sherman/cromwell ALL had less than a 50% chance of penetrating the old vet 2 brumbarr AT POINT BLANK RANGE (t34 was actually less than 50% against the vanilla brum too). Yes you should always be trying to flank, but point blank range less than 50%? The unit was nowhere near expensive enough to justify that.

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You are kind of confused, you are?

How speaks about the ability? You are the only one.


You have still 50% to pen front? Whats the Problem? Panzer 4 has Maybe 30% to pen Comet?

I've never paid atention to these stats.
People claim IS2 is weaker or stronger than the Tiger, but when the site was still up I was certain they had about the same stats in scatter and armor.

About the chances to hit, there is a reason most sov players picked up the SU85 against Ostheer and "nothing else", because they knew it had the most chances to pen the brumbar and the other tanks couldn't do that job efficiently.

Why wouldn't su76 or T3485 to do it from rear side at least?
Even so the deflection happened all too often to be called a reliable counter, especially given the cost and performance of either M38 or SU85.
They are deemed "OP" tank destroyer, but maybe they forget that getting them costs more resources than a brumbar and they are dedicated anti-tank units?


You literally get one tank to destroy one specific tank, and it leaves you also with less anti-infantry capability, for which Soviet really need med tanks for(if they don't go shocktroops, which is the case for most games now).

1. Because sov had 6 men and ost 4 .... that make a huge differance

2. most chances = 90 % at all ranges no that's because it need much less skill than ATG play and other tactics... selfspot ... 60 range ...

3. That's why u have to go Ele or JT ... u have to use 1 Tank to counter such no brainers

I gotta abandon this thread, it started about claims of overnerfing.
Now there are people who tell you the armor wasn't overperforming.

You can't possibly debate with this kind of delusion.

Thankfully the unit got nerfed in that aspect.

You have still 50% to pen front? Whats the Problem? Panzer 4 has Maybe 30% to pen Comet?

Nope, its 43% at point blank range. And the comet is 25 fuel more expensive than the brumbarr, and is more expensive to tech to. But go ahead and make horribly false analogies and accuse me of being the confused one. The t34/sherman/cromwell also ALL arrive later than the p4 sooo..

You already admitted you main Ostheer. I don't. I play Sovs, US, and OSt equally, less of Brits and OKW. Try playing more.

I think people need to calm down and let's take a moment to see if the Brummbar has died off in use as some claim.

And no, not purchasing because you read the patch notes doesn't count. Use the unit, play with it, come back and report.

The unit still excels at capture point defense, blasting infantry in general, and harming the odd tank that gets hit/forcing them to move. Bunker Buster is still lethal because the first shell always lands where it needs to go and does enough damage that RNG from the 2nd and 3rd shell still have a good chance at knocking out team weapons from the edge of their own range.

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Still bad changes (not all) in my opinion. Simply overnerfed.

Beside that way more has to be nerfed too. Not killing the last good Ostheer tank and buff KV8 etc. What's with repatch T34 mg? So it doesn't perform like all of Panzer 4 do?

Bouncing every 10th shot against the brumbar?
You must be joking, nobody who experienced intense games against taht unit can believe this, you're crazy bro, this is what the brumbar was known for, more than the supposed instawipe ability that the unit was made for.

They didn't even nerf that, they just made sure the unit doesn't one shot squads with full health anymore.

~90% for Jackson to pen. I think you have to learn to read. Sure, PaKs bounces more often.

Still bad changes (not all) in my opinion. Simply overnerfed.

If this is all you have to say to miragefla, a guy who understands this game better than you and I put together times 500, then you really need to accept that your just wrong.

Stop playing as just Ostheer, or stop trying to debate people who play both sides. Its pretty simple man.

If this is all you have to say to miragefla, a guy who understands this game better than you and I put together times 500, then you really need to accept that your just wrong.

Stop playing as just Ostheer, or stop trying to debate people who play both sides. Its pretty simple man.

So, whats your problem? In my opinion Brummbär gets overnerft and I know why. And Ostheer is only a good fraction if enemy runs into a MG42 and there are no blockers for PaK40.

And Brummbär was the unit let you attack without waisting all your stuff. And I understand nerfs, but it is overnerft.

It is like reducing Grens to only 3 men and no lmg42.

And Brummbär was the unit let you attack without waisting all your stuff.

What do you mean by this? Because it sounds like your describing the exact problem. One of the reasons it allowed you not to waste things is because it shrugged off more tank shots than it ever had a right to. Its 160 fuel, there's no reason for it to reliably bounce point blank mediums tank shots. Some yes, but not a majority of them....

How about the statistic that a t34/sherman/cromwell ALL had less than a 50% chance of penetrating the old vet 2 brumbarr AT POINT BLANK RANGE (t34 was actually less than 50% against the vanilla brum too). Yes you should always be trying to flank, but point blank range less than 50%? The unit was nowhere near expensive enough to justify that.

OK, if you do the same with p4 vs churchill/comet etc.

What do you mean by this? Because it sounds like your describing the exact problem. One of the reasons it allowed you not to waste things is because it shrugged off more tank shots than it ever had a right to. Its 160 fuel, there's no reason for it to reliably bounce point blank mediums tank shots. Some yes, but not a majority of them....

I often wrote about a main-problem the current game-balance still has. It is about tank-hunters perform too good versus every kind of stuff and the lack of some counter-parts.

Let speak about Ostheer versus e.g. Brits.

You Need Elefant to counter Fireflys, you need Fireflys to counter Panther, you need Panther to counter Churchills, you need Churchills too counter medium-tanks etc.

But then there is the lack, that e.g. Firefly is so accurat, that it also hard-counter 222. But Elefant e.g. misses light vehicles by 50/50. It is kind of unfair assymetics that has to be standardize. Also Firefly should be worse against lights.

And now it comes, if Elefant becomes way worse and less atractive you can make the game balanced. Changing the real fails of the game, not everything around it. Since when game becomes better? When heavys get their massive nerfs. E.g. King-Tiger. After it nerf other units become more important.

All over the years the game becomes less cancer, but the late-game tank-destroyer meter is way to potential. And that is why Brummbär had such much armor, not to be undestroyable by mediums, but to have a little bit of chance against SU85/Jackson/Firefly.

And until this problems arn't fixed, it is a overnerf of the Brummbär.


Edit: And I think that game balance is ok now. But I think Ostheer and Brits have bad fraction-design. My main-spot is on Ostheer.

Like:
-Brummbär changed with StuG E.
-HMG42 changed with HMG34.
-Ostheer Mortar changed with leIG18.
etc.

Or Brits:
-Give them a normal Mortar. If in trench it becomes range-bonus. Mortar-emplacement becomes a doc-unit.
-Give Piat the funktion to shoot a small AI explosive.

To make fraction more smooth.

Edit:
The tank-hunter-problem can be also fixed by way less accuracy on movement for units with range over 50. E.g. SU85 is in a good spot. But what is with Firefly, Jackson and Panther? Why 6-pounder hit units like 222 easy, royal-engeneers get AT-grenade, so nerf the 6-pounder.

How about the statistic that a t34/sherman/cromwell ALL had less than a 50% chance of penetrating the old vet 2 brumbarr AT POINT BLANK RANGE (t34 was actually less than 50% against the vanilla brum too). Yes you should always be trying to flank, but point blank range less than 50%? The unit was nowhere near expensive enough to justify that.

If you are going to use a medium vs Brumbar try flanking chance of T-34/76 vs rear/side armor VET 2 Brumbar:
range 40 60% range 20 73% range 0 88%.

For comparison:
Chance of PzIV flanking a KV-1
range 40 66% range 20 69% range 0 75%

OK, if you do the same with p4 vs churchill/comet etc.

First of all the P4 arrives earlier than all 3 of the allied mediums. Second, churchill and comet arrive later than the brumbarr. Third, the churchill has 240 armor, which is 6 more than the Ostheer p4 at vet 2.....

I already stated why you cant. P4 arrives earlier than all 3 of the allied mediums, churchill and comet arrive later than the brumbarr.

And where you can't? Only if your P4 dies so quick you can't use it later.

Also T37 arrives before Brummbär, where is your logic?

Also T37 arrives before Brummbär, where is your logic?

Apparently going right over your head. The arrival time is not of relevance if you're comparing two units that do completely different things................

I compared the arrival of mediums to mediums, and t4 heavies to t4 heavies. You are now comparing the arrival of heavies to mediums.

I've never paid atention to these stats.

So you have your opinion regardless of stats?

People claim IS2 is weaker or stronger than the Tiger, but when the site was still up I was certain they had about the same stats in scatter and armor.
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it seems you do. IS-2 has allot more armor than Tiger.

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Why wouldn't su76 or T3485 to do it from rear side at least?
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SU-75 chance to penetrate rear armor of brumbar vet 2
range 60-0 chance 100%

T-34/85 chance to penetrate rear armor of brumbar vet 2

range 40 chance 88% range 20 chance 100% range 0 chance 100%

Apparently going right over your head. The arrival time is not of relevance if you're comparing two units that do completely different things................

Hm... I wounder how it is possible that Churchill can simply overrun a PaK40 by threw a grenade on it and counter Mediums and even Panther can be hard damaged by a Chruchill if you can't stay on your 50-range mark.

Yes, Brummbär is OP because it can kill infantry. I get you.


Say it, you are salty because you can't blobb infanty and Jacksons versus Brummbär.
Edit: OK, Jackson also work current.

Say it, you are salty because you can't blobb infanty and Jacksons versus Brummbär.

I play 3 different factions on both sides equally. You have admitted that you only play 1 like an absolute moron. Stop trolling, play the game more.