Overnerfed Brummbar. Why am I not surprised?

Going by the information thats available on your playercard, 91% of your matches are on axis. 87% ostheer, 4% OKW. Just some food for thought.

The point is a few hundred games is more than enough to understand high level allied play. My USF and SU ranks at a few points in time were higher than my Ost rank despite having a lot less experience with them. USF especially is easy mode. Almost never punished for mistakes as USF.

Watch the Luvest vs Stuve game and you will see the obvious issues with the old brumbar, one shotting 6pdr from max range, wiping entire squads, medium tank shots just completely useless against old armour and magic smoke.

Really biggest issue was the armour with vet, medium tanks ad even t-35/85 just couldn't deal the finishing blow when you needed to and it escaped with 10% health. I felt for luvnest and ref that game because stuve and his boyfriend got totally outplayed, they just relied on cheese to scrape a win.

The point is a few hundred games is more than enough to understand high level allied play. My USF and SU ranks at a few points in time were higher than my Ost rank despite having a lot less experience with them. USF especially is easy mode. Almost never punished for mistakes as USF.

He is right though.
I'm not saying this to bash your claim, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but seeing how you are angry about SOV all the time, my suggestion, is that you do play them for a while at least, and come back.
I gurantee your views will change once you start playing with other factions.
As for overnerfing/overbuffing, the balance team already said that the way they work is primarly to make radical changes then adjust it accordingly after the community has tested the new patch.

The brumbar was not overnerfed though, it's been adjusted in relation with the 2v2 stats, this unit was overperforming because of its armor.

Watch the Luvest vs Stuve game and you will see the obvious issues with the old brumbar, one shotting 6pdr from max range, wiping entire squads, medium tank shots just completely useless against old armour and magic smoke.

Really biggest issue was the armour with vet, medium tanks ad even t-35/85 just couldn't deal the finishing blow when you needed to and it escaped with 10% health. I felt for luvnest and ref that game because stuve and his boyfriend got totally outplayed, they just relied on cheese to scrape a win.

Because of bad placement, all artys and all grenades perform like that. Only some mines got a limit of killing some patches ago.

And yes. The range-nerf is acceptable, if the armor doesn't get nerfed too. Because the Brummbär need that, or it becomes useless as breakthrough unit. And that is its job.

I wish my replay against DonnieChan still worked.
It made a lot of people laugh, but jokes aside the proof was there and blatant, he won last second because no way of penetrating his Brumbar even though I had everything on my side and he was left with nothing but some grens.

One engagement, 5 conscripts squads with smg and 3 Tanks+ IL2 strike.

He lost almost everything but the brumbar that simply wouldn't die after it was left with near 1HP.

I lose all my tanks, after trying hard to kill it.

Before anybody says that I mismanaged my units or anything, the pretention is not there, but I did damage and force him to retreat, and in these situations where you're about to kill his heavy tank(with pratically no health left), you can't let go, the thing had 1HP I had no reason to retreat, yet it wouldn't die.
If it had been destroyed I would have won.

The rest is simply that I didn't have enough resources to make up for what I lost, and his brum still survived wiping out what I had left in my base along with a panther.

I really can't say he played better, because he didn't, the brumbar was undestroyable, and it happened in many other games with much better players.

Remember that Relic also focuses on what is being used a lot, because they promote variety(meta doesn't sit well with them).
If they see everybody using a brumbar they will assume that the unit is overperforming, rightfully.

And they are still trying to get rid of guards and penals meta.

Recent changes to Brumbar.

JUNE 21st BALANCE UPDATE
"Brummbar
Cost decreased from 470 manpower and 160 fuel to 420 manpower and 150 fuel
Reload standardized from 7.5/9 seconds to 8.25.
AOE mid modifer from 0.15 to 0.3
Medium crush changed to Heavy Crush.
Veterancy requirements from 2740/5480/10960 to 2040/4080/8160
Added hold fire"
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Update: 17th of May 2018
Brummbar
The Brummbar is having its AOE adjusted to reduce its ability to wipe out full health units on the first shot, but still able to deal significant damage on misses.
• AOE distance changed from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0.625/1.25/6; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
• AOE damage changed from 1/0.3/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.2; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
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November 22
Brumbar
-Armour reduced to 240 from 260
-Veterancy 2 armour bonus from 1.3 to 1.2
-This equates to 288 armour when vetted as opposed to 320
-Bunker Buster Barrage second and third shot scatter distance from 2.5 to 9
-Bunker Buster second and third shot scatter from 6 to 10
-Brumbar Range from 40 to 35

Scotch was rank 1 axis with multiple mates over the last year, playing exlusively Wehrmacht. He had over 70 streak with Isildur, and I've played against Scotch many times. He always did fast T2 then would rush Brummbar.

He said himself after hundreds of games doing this Brummbar rush that the unit is way way way to strong.

I don't think anyone else's opinion really matters. If the best Wehrmacht player in 2v2 claims the unit is broken, and no one can beat him, then this "Incindiery" guy's opinion definitely doesn't matter.

It is funny too see People ignor that even the current T34 can kill a PaK40 with 2-3 shots. Same performance as a Brummbär.

So you agreed with incendiary rounds that other people are exaggerating about the brumbarr, and then you actually made this claim?

And the fact that you guys are complaining about the armor nerf says everything to me. God forbid you actually have to pay attention to the unit and it can't just soak up multiple AT shots in a row.

The old brumbarr had better armor than the Tiger/Pershing at vet 2. It's absurd that anyone would defend that

Because of bad placement, all artys and all grenades perform like that. Only some mines got a limit of killing some patches ago.

Grenades do not perform like that. What grenade can be thrown the range of an AT gun? Also when arty kills an AT gun, it's not killing it's own counter. The broken bunker buster was allowing it to do just that.

I had no problem with brumbar being able to wipe out AT guns easily, you just had to find a reliable counter.

But before the nerf, no matter what you had at hand, it wasn't so much about having the right counter against a brumbar, but watching all your shots getting deflected or not penetrating.

Sometimes I even wondered if it was a bug, the shells just magically bounced, shots after shots.

I had no problem with brumbar being able to wipe out AT guns easily, you just had to find a reliable counter.

But before the nerf, no matter what you had at hand, it wasn't so much about having the right counter against a brumbar, but watching all your shots getting deflected or not penetrating.

Sometimes I even wondered if it was a bug, the shells just magically bounced, shots after shots.

Chance for SU-85 vet 2 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumabr before the patch was:

Range 60 89%, range 30 93%, range 0 98%.
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Chance for M36 vet 3 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar before the patch was:

Range 60 89%, range 30 98%, range 0 100%.
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Chance for M36 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar using AP round:

Range 60 78%, range 30 98%, range 0 94%.

But before the nerf, no matter what you had at hand, it wasn't so much about having the right counter against a brumbar, but watching all your shots getting deflected or not penetrating.

Sometimes I even wondered if it was a bug, the shells just magically bounced, shots after shots.

Raketen?

To be honest, I think the brummbar is pretty okay with where it sits currently in game. Sure, maybe a slightly wider splash size and a slight AOE damage buff of 1-2 points could be granted, maybe a slightly faster firerate by 0.3 or 0.4 could work too.

Other than that, I think the brummbar is sitting pretty okay.

So you agreed with incendiary rounds that other people are exaggerating about the brumbarr, and then you actually made this claim?

And the fact that you guys are complaining about the armor nerf says everything to me. God forbid you actually have to pay attention to the unit and it can't just soak up multiple AT shots in a row.

The old brumbarr had better armor than the Tiger/Pershing at vet 2. It's absurd that anyone would defend that


Grenades do not perform like that. What grenade can be thrown the range of an AT gun? Also when arty kills an AT gun, it's not killing it's own counter. The broken bunker buster was allowing it to do just that.

Sooo… an unit with 35 range… it is your fault to get hit? lööl Nr. 1

Sooo… rifle-nade now has nearly the same range… lööl Nr.2

Edit: Tiger Ausf. 1 has armor? xDD

Chance for SU-85 vet 2 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumabr before the patch was:

Range 60 89%, range 30 93%, range 0 98%.
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Chance for M36 vet 3 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar before the patch was:

Range 60 89%, range 30 98%, range 0 100%.
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Chance for M36 to penetrate a vet 2 Brumbar using AP round:

Range 60 78%, range 30 98%, range 0 94%.

u cant bring statistics here.. thats not fair. Axis cant get have a reliable blobb stopper

u cant bring statistics here.. thats not fair. Axis cant get have a reliable blobb stopper

Exactly that is the mentality of many people here…

They are crying because their 60 range op tank-hunter bounces every 10th shot. But wait… you have a tank-hunter and cry because your PaK get countered by an AI-tank? xD

Sooo… an unit with 35 range… it is your fault to get hit? lööl Nr. 1

Uhhh no. Its not 35 range at all. Try reading again:

Grenades do not perform like that. What grenade can be thrown the range of an AT gun? Also when arty kills an AT gun, it's not killing it's own counter. The broken bunker buster was allowing it to do just that.

Bunker buster has a range of 60, which is the same as AT guns.

Sooo… rifle-nade now has nearly the same range… lööl Nr.2

Funny how being an Ostheer troll makes you less equipped to talk about balance. Try being less of one.

Bunker buster has a range of 60, which is the same as AT guns.

So, with some luck you can counter one PaK with it. For a cool-down longer than any other thing ingame.

wow, that is op, really. lol

So, with some luck you can counter one PaK with it. For a cool-down longer than any other thing ingame.

What luck? The abilities scatter was just nerfed because it was so reliable at destroying AT guns. I'm sorry if you had trouble using it do that, but it was real easy for most of us.

wow, that is op, really. lol

Keep trying to troll dude. You're in the massive minority of this opinion, so its only making your argument look even weaker.....

Exactly that is the mentality of many people here…

They are crying because their 60 range op tank-hunter bounces every 10th shot. But wait… you have a tank-hunter and cry because your PaK get countered by an AI-tank? xD

See this is your error. You assume everyone is like you and just plays one side. So when they disagree with you, you assume bias. In fact, most of us play all factions, so we're not biased and instead can see how obviously things like this are broken, regardless of who's side its on.

I've never paid atention to these stats.
People claim IS2 is weaker or stronger than the Tiger, but when the site was still up I was certain they had about the same stats in scatter and armor.

About the chances to hit, there is a reason most sov players picked up the SU85 against Ostheer and "nothing else", because they knew it had the most chances to pen the brumbar and the other tanks couldn't do that job efficiently.

Why wouldn't su76 or T3485 to do it from rear side at least?
Even so the deflection happened all too often to be called a reliable counter, especially given the cost and performance of either M38 or SU85.
They are deemed "OP" tank destroyer, but maybe they forget that getting them costs more resources than a brumbar and they are dedicated anti-tank units?


You literally get one tank to destroy one specific tank, and it leaves you also with less anti-infantry capability, for which Soviet really need med tanks for(if they don't go shocktroops, which is the case for most games now).

Exactly that is the mentality of many people here…

They are crying because their 60 range op tank-hunter bounces every 10th shot. But wait… you have a tank-hunter and cry because your PaK get countered by an AI-tank? xD

Bouncing every 10th shot against the brumbar?
You must be joking, nobody who experienced intense games against taht unit can believe this, you're crazy bro, this is what the brumbar was known for, more than the supposed instawipe ability that the unit was made for.

They didn't even nerf that, they just made sure the unit doesn't one shot squads with full health anymore.