Do you like the NEW Angoville?

There seems to be a lot of negative feedback about the NEW Angoville. Common complaints are the Souths cutoff house, too many sight blocking entities, red cover road retreat path, asymmetric design, it is ugly, lost its soul, etc. If you have other issues feel free to explain.

THE OLE SHOE
The general belief is that everyone plays broken maps for so long they just work around the problems and become comfortable with them. Like an old pair of shoes/sneakers.

Everyone complains about their old shoes until they get new shoes. The new shoes are tight, stiff, and unfamiliar. Then they complain about the new shoes. "I lost on this map so it sucks! My 10 MG strat used to work on the old map!"

ITS NOT ME
When someone loses on a 1v1 map they have to blame the map. It has to be the map right? What else could it be? Team games you blame your team. 1v1 you blame the map.

OMG NOT THIS MAP AGAIN
Some maps just have problems that cant be fixed. Some people just do not like the play style required to play a certain style of map. Or the opponents meta strat is very cancerous. In the case of Angoville people have been playing it for years and may be vetoing it out of boredom. Or vetoing it from hatred of the original map and are not flexible enough to give the new map a chance.

SUMMARY
With all of these hidden agendas it is hard to decipher the communities wishes. Maps such as Road to Kharkov were reworked for 1v1 and there has been no backlash. Which indicates something is wrong with the modified Angoville.

I vote to return to the original map.

I think it's okay now - due to it being Angoville the red cover road down the middle and asymmetric design can't really go away without basically making an entire new map. The couple times I've played on it I felt that it certainly plays better than the old version particularly the more symmetrical fuel points and the opening up of the south VP and sight lines, and the rotated cut-off houses which are MUCH less punishing now. I voted rework more because I'm sure it could be made better if you really looked at it but the new version is definitely better IMO.

In my opinion the map is now overly cluttered and has a very artificial feeling resource layout. Compared to open and intuitive resource layout of maps like Crossroads, Angoville feels like a badly designed band-aid was put on an asymmetrical map.

What is it with rank 2000 4v4 mapmakers making assumptions about peoples reasons to hate certain maps ? what agendas are you talkign about lmao. SOme maps are just bad. Some are good. And there's a pretty clear consensus about it among the people who play and understand the game. Sorry for being an asshole but I just can't hold it back.

Edit: Angoville went from unplayable garbage to playable garbage. Should be removed from teh game. Way too much of a clusterfuck atm. And the middle road split is just fundamentally broken.

Fix the resource point system, fix the map.

Voted

Voted

Good! Thats one KEEP IT AS IT IS vote

Show Spoiler

What is it with rank 2000 4v4 mapmakers making assumptions about peoples reasons to hate certain maps ? what agendas are you talkign about lmao. SOme maps are just bad. Some are good. And there's a pretty clear consensus about it among the people who play and understand the game. Sorry for being an asshole but I just can't hold it back.

Edit: Angoville went from unplayable garbage to playable garbage. Should be removed from teh game. Way too much of a clusterfuck atm. And the middle road split is just fundamentally broken.

Please reread the sub-section entitled OMG NOT THIS MAP AGAIN. You just agreed with what I said in that whole section.

The three sections are to show that there are many reasons to veto a map. Some are map related. Some are not. So it is hard to decipher what to do when someone says stuff like: It sucks, Unplayable garbage, etc. Are these people just chronic complainers? They have not mentioned any articulate reasons to hate the map.

Giving good reasons for the map sucking anal lips will help everyone in the community.

My work is already done. The map is in the game. I am asking these questions for YOU guys. To help YOU. I know what it is like playing on a map I dont like. I am trying to help YOU guys not have to do the same thing. I could just pat myself on the back and leave saying "great job Rosbone" but again that would not help YOU.

Like AE and others, I dont take myself too seriously. If you guys want to have some fun shitting on me I encourage it! Lets at least make this shit fun!

EDIT: I had the chance to make more maps recently but I turned it down. This poll is not for me. I am done making maps for automatch.

I propose reworking the map a litle bit more.
I used to veto the old one most of the time but the new one i never vetoed.
what I propose is getting rid of this assymetrical VP/ressources placements the map offers, and just make the map symetrical. maybe put the northern most VP in the middle.
also it seems that the southernmost VP is easy to acces for the south base while it is not the same case for the northernmost one.
I also propose making munitions a litle bit more accessible and open the southern cutoff a litle bit more and make it accesible with no shot blockers like the northern one.

I propose reworking the map a litle bit more.
I used to veto the old one most of the time but the new one i never vetoed.
what I propose is getting rid of this assymetrical VP/ressources placements the map offers, and just make the map symetrical. maybe put the northern most VP in the middle.
also it seems that the southernmost VP is easy to acces for the south base while it is not the same case for the northernmost one.
I also propose making munitions a litle bit more accessible and open the southern cutoff a litle bit more and make it accesible with no shot blockers like the northern one.

Awesome Syraw! Perfect! Thank You!

Ok this is basically how it goes in the COH2 community.

Someone uses his time to either work in the balance team or map making-->

The guy tries to find people to test the changes in custom games with mods-->

Very very few people help because they aren´t really interested or don´t want to spend their time. ->

After the changes get implemented the very same people that didn´t contribute anything start complaining and calling the people that made the changes stupid.

It´s sad but it´s not going to change anymore at this point of the game´s life-span.

Awesome Syraw! Perfect! Thank You!

Proud To serve

I helped give feedback for changes! Remove entirely. Of course I'd removed everything except KFS and Crossroads so....

Ok this is basically how it goes in the COH2 community.

Someone uses his time to either work in the balance team or map making-->

The guy tries to find people to test the changes in custom games with mods-->

Very very few people help because they aren´t really interested or don´t want to spend their time. ->

After the changes get implemented the very same people that didn´t contribute anything start complaining and calling the people that made the changes stupid.

It´s sad but it´s not going to change anymore at this point of the game´s life-span.

The thing you're missing out on is that people can make the game worse. What if I don't want any of the community made maps ? What if I donn't want the game to become more and more linear and homogenous ? Not saying my opinion matters at all but I shouldn't haev to be thankful for something I never wanted. Like 90% of community made maps. Again my personal opinion. Not saying it should have an effect on what happens with the game but I at least want to express it.

The thing you're missing out on is that people can make the game worse. What if I don't want any of the community made maps ? What if I donn't want the game to become more and more linear and homogenous ? Not saying my opinion matters at all but I shouldn't haev to be thankful for something I never wanted. Like 90% of community made maps. Again my personal opinion. Not saying it should have an effect on what happens with the game but I at least want to express it.

Well then don´t play the game or veto the maps you don´t like. Relic decided to put community maps into the game because 90% of the playerbase demanded it. They also allowed community balance patches because the community wanted it.

Not sure what your point is. Should they release 10000 versions of COH2 to suit every individuals taste instead?

Well then don´t play the game or veto the maps you don´t like. Relic decided to put community maps into the game because 90% of the playerbase demanded it. They also allowed community balance patches because the community wanted it.

Not sure what your point is. Should they release 10000 versions of COH2 to suit every individuals taste instead?

As I said I'm not talking about actual content policy because I'm not expecting my opinion to have an effect on it. I was mostly responding to

"After the changes get implemented the very same people that didn´t contribute anything start complaining and calling the people that made the changes stupid."

I have the right to complain because I never wanted any of the bad maps in the first place. So yes I can criticize without having contributed anything. That was my point.

Also your random 90 % estimate doesn't make much sense. A lot of the community maps were removed already or are widely hated.

As I said I'm not talking about actual content policy because I'm not expecting my opinion to have an effect on it. I was mostly responding to

"After the changes get implemented the very same people that didn´t contribute anything start complaining and calling the people that made the changes stupid."

I have the right to complain because I never wanted any of the bad maps in the first place. So yes I can criticize without having contributed anything. That was my point.

Also your random 90 % estimate doesn't make much sense. A lot of the community maps were removed already or are widely hated.

You (and whoever else agrees with you) could have made a thread here or on the offical forums complaining about the plans to implement more community maps or rework the existing ones. You didn´t do that.

Saying "I don´t want new maps, balance patches, please leave everything as it is" is also a way of contributing. You can´t just say/do nothing then afterwards complain. It´s like not voting in an election and afterwards complaining that no one does what you want.

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Both of you have valid points. My question is, did anyone really like angoville being in rotation even before the changes? It is just another grandfathered in vcoh map that doesn't translate well into coh 2.

At least someone tried to do it justice, and has been said, many like the new one more so than the old one, the problem is you can only polish a turd so much.

Also the "widely hated" comment is pretty funny. As maps that are "widely hated" on the forums here are typically enjoyed by the vast amount of casual coh 2 players, the player base is larger than these forums.

Case in point, if pripyat sector would've only been in custom games it would've been top 5 most played maps for it. In fact, before the 2v2 tournament you could still see it on the front page of custom games daily.

I never thought old Ango was terrible. I almost never vetoed it. That said I don't play Brits or Okw
and if I played as Usf I would always go Armour Company. Now I can see how some people will automatically say I have just refuted my own argument but imo there are just far worse maps.

The biggest problem with Old Ango was the houses on cutoffs and the choke points. The health of houses could have been reduced or they could have been destroyed. The choke points were vastly improved in the new version but I would have preferred to see all the hedgerows around the south VP become crushable by mediums.

I think the new resource layout is fine ( and something different ). I certainly would not want to see the map become symmetrical, there is way to much of that mentality already.

What I hate about new ango is the excess of shot blockers and blindspots. The excess objects need to either be cleared away somewhat, or pushed together, or made destructible or replaced with cover. This applies to both sides of the map. But whatever is changed there needs to be freedom to move late game when your at max pop cap. The current layout in that respect is just frustrating.

What I hate about new ango is the excess of shot blockers and blindspots. The excess objects need to either be cleared away somewhat, or pushed together, or made destructible or replaced with cover.

Perfect timing. I was just looking at how close Angoville and Crossroads are. Crossroads everyone loves. Angoville 50/50? Maybe too soon to tell.

Both maps are shaped like a cross. With hedgerows or objects creating divides North/South and East/West. Both maps have a building on the souths cutoff point.

CROSSROADS:
- RED lines show north side E/W passages thru the cross.
- BLUE lines show south side E/W passages.
- YELLOW lines are east side N/S passages.
- GREEN lines are the west side N/S passages.
There are four quadrants of the cross approximately 90+ meters in length. Bases trim two quads down to about 65+ meters. These quadrants are mostly free of sight blocking entities.


NEW ANGOVILLE:
Here you can see the same cross pattern as crossroads. However, there are many more sight blocking entities in each of the quadrants. The entities create smaller engagement areas within the quads. Where Crossroads has a typical engagment area of about 60+ meters. There are areas in Angoville below 45 meters if you take the additional sight blocks into the equation. It must be noted that Angoville is larger than Crossroads so the engagment areas are not as small as they appear in the pictures.


It is clear that there are too many sight blockers from player feedback. Most engagement areas were designed around 45 meters minimum except the right side munition. Blocks there were just so a single MG cant hold the whole side.

Form the feedback it looks like a possible solution would be to remove some items and relocate others. You can see how the original GREEN blocks were mirrored with the added RED blocks.
1) Move RED lined blocks more north(YELLOW) to block garage and keep mirroring line with GREEN.
2) Remove large trees by right fuel.
3) Reduce size of blocks around the right munition.
4) Remove the center shed or relocate more north to act as block.
5) Remove the MAGENTA blocks that are used to reduce building/MG strength.
6) Merge the BLUE hedges. Will make buildings stronger but will create more space.

OPTION 1


OPTION 1 COMPLETED
- Shed still here. But moved. Could be removed completely.
- Newly clumped blocks by right buildings could be reduced in size some more.


Just food for thought. How similar the two maps are yet one is the best map ever made and one is complete dogshit.