Civil discussion about OKW

I want a civil discussion about this. This is my honest experience during the last months.

OKW especially in 2vs2 game mode are way too easy to play, way too forgiving and way too hard to counter on the Allied side

- 5 man jack-of-all trades cheap volks are hard to push and too spammable
- Sturmpio starting unit will push you away and take ur cut off while 1v3ng ur cons
- the raketen is deadly with its stealth and penetration
- the pz iv is the best non-premiun med in the game
- The KT is stock
- Good early and late game units, preservation is a meme because of obers
- Best recon and a wallhack

Countering this cancer as anything but T1 soviets is futile. Volks will be too spammable too early and have t0 AT to fuck up any light play alongside free fausts from tech. Fire nades fuck up any support weapons, especially soviet ones and garrisons.

During the early game and the early mid game OKW have a huge advantage. And due to the Soviet nerfs (120mm mortar, katyusha, t70,penals,t-34) they are still oppressive late game, despite having even a bigger advantage earlier.

PZ iv,j4, panthers shut down any Armor play from Allied side. Panther buffs and its now meta and kills infantry with np. And u can always spam cheaper IV's and just blitz out to preserve them or go for a KT later for more oppressive choices.

What exaclty is the disadvantage of OKW? There is none.

- 5 man jack-of-all trades cheap volks are hard to push and too spammable
They aren't really a jack of all trades they considering they have no AT minus a snare that is on all mainline infantry except UKF. They are strong early to mid but fall off late when compared to Allied counterparts.

- Sturmpio starting unit will push you away and take ur cut off while 1v3ng ur cons
Don't Con spam into OKW.

- the raketen is deadly with its stealth and penetration
Its a gamey unit, and its annoying that the stealth means multiple rakens can blow up LVs pretty easy but late game they get wiped pretty quickly be indirect and vetted infantry and they got to get pretty close to guarantee a hit. With vet they are pretty good though

- the pz iv is the best non-premiun med in the game
It also has the price tag of the best medium tank in the game.

- The KT is stock
KT is barely worth the price at the current moment you are better off getting a panther/jp4 if you want AT damage

- Good early and late game units, preservation is a meme because of obers
If obers couldn't fight vetted infantry then they would be useless considering how late they come out. I dont get why obers make preservation a meme.

- Best recon and a wallhack
Spec ops flare deserve a nerf. Uncounterable recon is BS. IR Halftrack still has that perma revel bug and is basically the only reason its used.

Soviet T1 is very good into OKW. Clown Car either forces them to bunch up or get an early rakken which either way helps ur early game. They cant counter sniper and Penals basically beat Volks throughout most of the game. Just dont spam cons if you spam cons you are asking to get slaughtered.

Panther definitely does not kill infantry easily, I'd argue the opposite really.

I want a civil discussion about this.

What exaclty is the disadvantage of OKW? There is none.

So just ignoring everything even in that post, if you want a discussion, you need a starting point. Starting points generally work better for discussion when you don't come to a conclusion in the exact same post. Makes it seem like you're not open for discussion since you've already made up your mind.

Fortunatly we have some nice data on a recent 2v2 tourney.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/83846/ac-2v2-statistics-wildcard-qt1-qt2

- 5 man jack-of-all trades cheap volks are hard to push and too spammable
They aren't really a jack of all trades they considering they have no AT minus a snare that is on all mainline infantry except UKF. They are strong early to mid but fall off late when compared to Allied counterparts.

- Sturmpio starting unit will push you away and take ur cut off while 1v3ng ur cons
Don't Con spam into OKW.

- the raketen is deadly with its stealth and penetration
Its a gamey unit, and its annoying that the stealth means multiple rakens can blow up LVs pretty easy but late game they get wiped pretty quickly be indirect and vetted infantry and they got to get pretty close to guarantee a hit. With vet they are pretty good though

- the pz iv is the best non-premiun med in the game
It also has the price tag of the best medium tank in the game.

- The KT is stock
KT is barely worth the price at the current moment you are better off getting a panther/jp4 if you want AT damage

- Good early and late game units, preservation is a meme because of obers
If obers couldn't fight vetted infantry then they would be useless considering how late they come out. I dont get why obers make preservation a meme.

- Best recon and a wallhack
Spec ops flare deserve a nerf. Uncounterable recon is BS. IR Halftrack still has that perma revel bug and is basically the only reason its used.

Soviet T1 is very good into OKW. Clown Car either forces them to bunch up or get an early rakken which either way helps ur early game. They cant counter sniper and Penals basically beat Volks throughout most of the game. Just dont spam cons if you spam cons you are asking to get slaughtered.

Panther definitely does not kill infantry easily, I'd argue the opposite really.

- 5 man jack-of-all trades cheap volks are hard to push and too spammable
They aren't really a jack of all trades they considering they have no AT minus a snare that is on all mainline infantry except UKF. They are strong early to mid but fall off late when compared to Allied counterparts.

Not jack of all trades but get a FREE snare, STG's that can be upgraded anywhere,free fire nades to clear garrisons and team weapons and good vet? They can't fight proper armor thats it. But they don't fall off compared to other mainline that also have to RESEARCH RACKS AND SIDETECH FOR THESE GOODIES. OR PAY FUEL FOR 1 EXTRA MEMBER

- Sturmpio starting unit will push you away and take ur cut off while 1v3ng ur cons
Don't Con spam into OKW.

>dont use ur versatile mainline infantry into OKW
>OKW stg's still beat conscript PPSHs and STG's are stock
>u need to close distance to do anything with a PPSH

hahahah



- the pz iv is the best non-premiun med in the game
It also has the price tag of the best medium tank in the game.

Meanwhile Allied has to pay for anything close to it by locking themselves to commanders.

- The KT is stock
KT is barely worth the price at the current moment you are better off getting a panther/jp4 if you want AT damage

Still stock and better than IS-2 without added CP need or the fact that u have to lock urself to a commander.

- Good early and late game units, preservation is a meme because of obers
If obers couldn't fight vetted infantry then they would be useless considering how late they come out. I dont get why obers make preservation a meme.

Why can't soviets/USF/UKF fight with non-vetted stock units? U need vet or u bust making preservation from OKW side a meme. Even guards with DP's suck without vet compared to Obers with LMG upgrade while not being stock.

So just ignoring everything even in that post, if you want a discussion, you need a starting point. Starting points generally work better for discussion when you don't come to a conclusion in the exact same post. Makes it seem like you're not open for discussion since you've already made up your mind.

Fortunatly we have some nice data on a recent 2v2 tourney.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/83846/ac-2v2-statistics-wildcard-qt1-qt2

So now suddenly the statistics matter when OKW has bad % but didnt back when they were the best one? Aha.

The only weakness in 1v1 and 2v2 of this faction maybe lack of units to counter call-in heavy (IS-2 e.g.) push supported by ATs.
It's no a good idea to purchase a 100 fuel walking stuka to counter AT (if U skip T3, more expensive). And it's tanks would lack AT support when facing call-in heavys due to Rak's poor range.
However, this faction is too edurable because its units are cheap overall, making it easy to spam units and change army construction, and few things in this faction require a second thoughts. In fact, it maybe no difference if U take a second thoughts. I mean its upper-limit is also low while its lower-limits is considerably high.
That's all. If U facing a better player could extract the best of SOV, few things U can do to win. And if he do not, few things U can do to lose.
Anyway, I think it's not a good faction to play or play against. It's very boring.

Invis'd a bunch of off topic/ generally unconstructive posts. Will lock thread if the children can't play nice.

Locking until everyone calms down, not gonna sit here and invis everyones posts for 4 hours or ban people.