New Commanders / Units discussion

They've already said regarding the leaderboards, it's abit of a collaboration with Valve. Same deal with the editors we're planning on getting eventually.

I'd rather want the stuff we get to be good, rather than half-baked rushed produdcts that fails to deliever to your consumers.

CoH2 was a half rushed product from the start.

They've already said regarding the leaderboards, it's abit of a collaboration with Valve. Same deal with the editors we're planning on getting eventually.

I'd rather want the stuff we get to be good, rather than half-baked rushed produdcts that fails to deliever to your consumers.

I've seen people nagging on wanting some more "VCOH" styled commanders, and here they are. You expected them to be free? Delusions of grandeur much. You reap what you sow.

On a good note, they said future-free commanders would have originality as well. And besides that, even existing commanders are extremely versatile and useful. There's a clear indication on the pros/cons between the commanders they've shown.


Principal? DLC is a common business model. Is it PAY 2 WIN? Who knows, so far the commanders are actually fairly well balanced out. Heck, give it a month or so until it settles in to make some verdict before jumping on the bandwagon of "Lolzpay2winz".

For me the definition of pay2win is if you give the paying guy more options (new units) than the average Joe. Is this the case? Yes it is. Should they have released the new units/abilities for free, then sell them in reshuffled commanders, I wouldn't even mention anything. Fact of the matter is that if you pay you get units/abilities which someone else does not have.

I wont buy the P2W DLC Commanders.

Especially when there has been little apparent effort to balance the existing Commander pool as it stands now, let alone balanced towards when those vanilla Commanders now get matched against P2W Commanders.

If the P2W DLC Commanders had been just a reshuffle of the existing Commander abilities, as purchaseable DLC Commanders have been uptil now, I'd be fine with that, but I absolutely resist and disagree with adding such game-changing content that further imbalances multiplayer, for cost.

Sorry, but no.

I feel genuinely sorry for CE purchasers who are getting royally shafted for paying a premium, giving their money early and in trust, and then getting this, as a result. They where the earliest, and biggest, investors, and this is the thanks they get for that. If I had to conduct business with people who treated me like this as an investor in my professional life, I'd categorically blacklist them and tell everyone I know to avoid them.

I think this kind of business conduct violates the trust held by existing customers when they paid for the initial product. I think its "bad business", and I wont support it and now regret having paid for the initial product in the first place (especially as a pre-order).

Commanders look fun and great.
But issuing them as P2W, is a complete "no" for me.

I will never again pre-order a Relic product at premium price. I will wait until its bargain basement bin price, and even then I will purchase it in a format that ensures not a cent of my money actually goes to Relic. Any game company that conducts itself in this way, deserves that treatment.

RELIC AND SAGA IS DIGGING THEM SELF A HOLE. C&C general F2P is coming out and C&C devs says its not a P2W game.

Somebody hasn't seen the recent post about C&C monetization... makes COH2 look almost tame by comparison.

I can't see this being a problem. For Germans, the best three doctrines are the Elefant/Spotting Scope, Assault Support (with opel, strafe and tiger) and Sector arty. For Russians, Guard Motor is a stand out, as is combined rifle/guard. They are all incredibly strong and likely to remain so for a long time.

These new ones appear to be quite well balanced IMO. I can't see Assault grenadiers having an easy time vs MG's and conscripts (especially when they need to be up close in molotov range, and the soviet may just spam shocks or PPsH to counter attack) and Osttruppen will just make the game more like COH1 (Rifles vs Volks, anybody?).

What I do protest to is the blatent money grabbing and undercutting of the collectors edition, which people on COH2.org obviously don't care about. However, the principle of buying a very expensive game, its even more expensive collectors edition, then still charging a premium for new content (£3 a pop is a lot of money for something you'll use a handful of times)? that's a bit much.

Reminds me of the whole DOW2 Retribution Collectors/Dark Angels malarkey.

Good guy bad guy Relic Kappa

I am dissapointed that the game has no lobby, no chat, *** replay system, no anti cheat, input lag, balance issues and no in game leaderboards, and they are releasing new content without fixing addressing that stuff first. It makes me feel as though they are short on money or have to prove to SEGA the game is still making money. - Yet we still have to buy DLC commanders

+1 this.

I'd suggest boycotting the purchase of the new commanders to make a point that we deserve these for free but....

...as if the community would band together, right? MVGame

Not me, just about losing last bits of fate for this game

They should really have made the commanders with new abilities free and the other ones purchaseable. Or they could have reworked those other 4 commanders so they also contain the new abilities, only in different combinations.

People should have access to all the new abilities without paying. The edge given to paying people would then be created solely by the combination of those abilities.
Then people could at least test those abilities and if they are intrigued by a certain (reshuffled) combination they can buy those additional commanders.

Having some abilities inaccessible to large portions of this already small player base will just make people complain about abusing certain "OP" stuff, even if it turns out not to be perfectly counterable.

Not for multiplayer dude, see Noun´s post:

The maps are free.
The the 4 1941 Commanders will be free for multiplayer (the ones shown off on Thursday).
The Commanders shown off today will not be free.

pre-orders and DCE got them for free...

Barton, Noun made it clear they don't. Well he didn't. In fact nothing is clear, other than Case Blue being free. I think that's the problem - Clarity over whats free, and what the collectors edition *actually* included in terms of "future DLC". I can't even find a Case Blue press release announcement.

They should really have made the commanders with new abilities free and the other ones purchaseable. Or they could have reworked those other 4 commanders so they also contain the new abilities, only in different combinations.

The commanders being released for free are already in the game. They are the Theatre of War ones, completely unchanged. If they charged for those, the world would of fucking assploded.

The KV-1 and StuG III Ausf. E should have been just added to their respective tier 3 buildings imo. Well the same could be said for other new units/mechanics too. But that wouldn`t make Relic/SEGA that much moneeeyz. That being said yes I will probably purchase the new commanders, the german ones definitely (if I don`t get them free because of the RS edition), so I guess the business model works :/

I really like the Redistribute Resources for ze Germans, on the other hand AssGrens look like they might just break the game... we`ll see. Soviet commanders are just meh since they don`t offer PPSHs so not sure if they are even worth the money. Forward HQ collapsing after 1 crit from mortar will be hilarious.

Inb4 AssGren spam everywhere.

[...]
I've seen people nagging on wanting some more "VCOH" styled commanders, and here they are. You expected them to be free? Delusions of grandeur much. You reap what you sow.

On a good note, they said future-free commanders would have originality as well. And besides that, even existing commanders are extremely versatile and useful. There's a clear indication on the pros/cons between the commanders they've shown.

Principal? DLC is a common business model. Is it PAY 2 WIN? Who knows, so far the commanders are actually fairly well balanced out. Heck, give it a month or so until it settles in to make some verdict before jumping on the bandwagon of "Lolzpay2winz".

This much sums up my view on the matter as well.

Also, it has been clearly stated what is in the DCE and not for quite some time. That AND the preorder (even though the preorder perks changed during beta).

Digital Collectors Edition
The Digital Collector's Edition includes the following:

Vehicle Skin Combo Pack

25 Vehicle Skins
Exclusive Collector Faceplate
Collector’s Edition Faceplate with Integrated Badge
10 Commander Archetypes
Soviet Commanders
Anti-Infantry Tactics
Conscript Support Tactics
Terror Tactics
Armored Assault Tactics
Mechanized Support Tactics
German Commanders
Joint Operations Doctrine
Spearhead Doctrine
Storm Doctrine
Fortified Armor Doctrine
Lightning War Doctrine

Theater of War Mini Pack
Case Blue Mini Pack (think the name is a new edition)

Company of Heroes Complete Pack
The Award Winning Game Collection that Started it All

IF you some how feel ripped off, you clearly didnt read up. If you whine in hindsight, take a look at the offer. You already got content in the DCE that is not free. There is very little that is exclusive in the DCE though aoart from the faceplate.


That said, I do hope and think that these new abilities will be incorporated in more new commanders down the line, or some to put in to commanders already availeble. Osttruppen come to mind.

pre-orders and DCE got them for free...

nope!
http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/company-of-heroes-2-discussion/topics/Questions-on-DLC

another source steam forum:
Relic_Noun [developer] 5 hours ago
For clarification these Commanders are not part of the Case Blue Theater of War pack though they are being released at the same time (tomorrow). They're an additional cost.

pre-orders and DCE got them for free...

No, they don't.

ImperialDane confirmed it on the official forums:

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/company-of-heroes-2-discussion/topics/Commanders-pack-should-be-free-for-CE-Lets-vote?page=2

You seem to forget the DCE upgrade has ALREADY been on sale for 33%. The game has barely been out two months. Right now, you look like an idiot to have bought the CE. Undercutting is not cool, and thats exactly what they have done.

Not to mention, Preorder getting the same Bonus? talk about a slap in the face.

When the original pack went up, it promised a lot of DLC. Then it got changed. I'm under no doubt whats in it - I said it wasn't undersold, but people out there believe it has been, and are complaining about them not including it.

Or are you arguing that Collectors aren't getting screwed? Like I said, its the same as Retribution - they undercut all the collectors edition content (which was promised as exclusive) and put it on Steam the first day. Then, hey presto, Dark Angels is meant to be free, and they have to backtrack. Or are we going to pretend that didn't happen either?

Relic/SEGA's handling of it has been poor. They haven't been clear on any matter at all. I think the crappy COH2 website thats impossible to read or find anything on doesn't help either. The front page doesn't even mention Case Blue at the moment, or the two new maps, or that today is patch day. Their PR machine is lacking. That isn't Noun's fault mind - he's walked into a nightmare scenario. I'm just saying its a poor face for the public.

Funny how I have to get my news from COH2.org.

I've already commented on the Pay 2 Win stuff. I stand by the fact that the commanders in the base game are some of the best, and unlikely to be topped for a while for risk of pissing everyone off (even though that seems to be happening anyway).

While I appreciate some of the opinions of the posters in this thread. You have to admit this is no more pay to win than the expansions to CoH 1 were.

so expansions to CoH1 were pay to win? It just broke the gameplay thats all

While I appreciate some of the opinions of the posters in this thread. You have to admit this is no more pay to win than the expansions to CoH 1 were.

COH1's expansions where a Hybrid Standalone style (ala DOW: Dark Crusade which released the same year as COH). TOV included everything for free from the originals, and was a "complete edition" akin to Retribution for DOW2.

The Hybrid standalone can indeed fall under the broad p2w definition people are using in this thread. The fact was that original COH players got something out of it - more variety, more opponents to face, different gameplay, etc. People don't like being split up, and Relic prevented them from doing so. There were huge content patches that put all the new maps in for free for existing players. It was a good deal for them.

This is much the same. I don't see why people are complaining. Or do they truely believe these four new commanders are that amazing? 80 fuel for a build that can be smashed by artillery strikes? hah.

I think that it is interesting they are adding stuf, but there are far more important things to add to the game then new commanders, stuff like lobby, better replay system, anti cheat and so on.

On the other hand, I'm really woried about balance with this new commanders and I fear that with some of the abilities like trenches and FHQ the game is going to be even more slowed down and even campier.

Everyone saying that the DLC commanders will make it pay to win is thinking to far ahead. If I recall, this was a very similar discussion that took place when all the other new commanders came around. Even though those one didn't introduce new units I still found the free ones to be just as good or if not better in most situations. Give it time.

Getting angry because you have to pay more? Fair enough I understand your point but for me I really couldn't care if I pay an extra $10 for new commanders that can offer a new style of play. I enjoy the CoH series enough that money does not limit my level of enjoyment. Pretty sure the 1500+ hours I got from CoH1, a $30 game at the time of purchase, definitely got its money worth from me.

Same can be said for CoH1 with the OF/ToV DLC units. They evnetually get balanced up so I can't see what the problem is. Just will need more time since more factors are thrown into the system.

It is just two factions in the end and I would be pulling my hair out when they introduce new factions, like so many people on the official forums/facebook ask for. That is a problem. New units can be incorprated with two faction based play over time, but extra factions break things.

I agree though that other functions should be fixed/incorporated first like lobby, ladders, responsiveness ... etc, before new content is made.

I'm with StephennJF. I've got 300+ hours on CoH2 (and 2500+ on Coh1)and I'm absolutely willing to plunk down the $10 to get cool new stuff. It is value.

The guys whining about P2Win are ridiculous as well.....I can best sum up my position like this; Who cares!?

No one cares about what xTrUcZorLeet69x posts, especially when his posts are in all caps ( to better show his indignation) or (best of all!) he threatens to quit the game when something goes against his sense of virtue.

The devs have a vested interest in making the game balanced and competitive. They're doing great thus far. They're showed themselves to be proactive and are taking steps to tweak things appropriately. Do I want a lobby? Yeah. Do I want a random button? Sure. It'll get there.