OKW blob control

I was wondering about OKW blob control, early game is ok-ish but then it just degrades to the point they are even killing my infantry in plain sight of my tank, even that is having very little effect on the ever growing blob, i have tried getting 4 or 5 maxims after a couple of engineers, con spam and mixed arms, but the blob just seems to get to critical mass and then walk through everything, T70's do ok at kiting but often the blob has a few racketen with it.. any pointers on build orders when facing this? stuff lie Katayusha seem to do ok at prompting a retreat, but it slows the units I need to face off the inevitable KT.

Аs one man once said - Mines win games. Especially if you playing as Soviets, which have just aversome multy-purpose mines. They are cheap, can do a lot of damage and quick to plant.

Also, maxim vet1 ability is extremly useful, when facing blobs - it literally pumps out whole box of ammunition without any cooldowns.
Like,
-"Vadim, folkssturm are coming!"
-"No worries, komrad-komander, we got little teleporter inside our ammo boxes, aimed straight at ammo factory in gulag!"

So if you spotted that blob at max range and then popped ability, then blob wont get too close for lava-nade and wont stay too far, where grens can snipe your maxim gunner.

Also-also, demochardges still can be a thing, if you hide them properlly. Almost no players never ever moves their cameras(alt+moving your mouse), so hiding them behind builindgs, wreckage and some green covers can work in your favor.

Also-also-also, flame artys from commanders and CE flamers are quite effective - while first are simple area-denial, CE in green cover can hold blob off for 30-40 seconds, while doing great AOE damage. Combine this with maxim ability, and whole blob is sitting in open of nowhere, slowly burning away.

Also-Also-Also-Also, if your opponent blobbing, then he obviosly went for jgtiger commander with sturmofficer. Focus him, and wholle blob will retreat as soon as officer model is killed.

I was wondering about OKW blob control, early game is ok-ish but then it just degrades to the point they are even killing my infantry in plain sight of my tank, even that is having very little effect on the ever growing blob, i have tried getting 4 or 5 maxims after a couple of engineers, con spam and mixed arms, but the blob just seems to get to critical mass and then walk through everything, T70's do ok at kiting but often the blob has a few racketen with it.. any pointers on build orders when facing this? stuff lie Katayusha seem to do ok at prompting a retreat, but it slows the units I need to face off the inevitable KT.

Are you talking about team games or 1 v 1?

Against OKW Penals and Guards into T70 should put the game firmly in your control. When Obers come out they'll be facing max vet Guards and Penals (and bleeding from the T70), so you'll generally have a very large window of infantry dominance.

Are you talking about team games or 1 v 1?

Against OKW Penals and Guards into T70 should put the game firmly in your control. When Obers come out they'll be facing max vet Guards and Penals (and bleeding from the T70), so you'll generally have a very large window of infantry dominance.

I have tried this, but if i go tier 1, by the time I have a penal squad out they have already cut me off, so it can be as long as 8 to 10 minutes before I have T70, by then its already useless, guards are ammo dependant and being so massively outnumbered due to penals securing fuel for T70 is hard enough without trying to secure ammo as well, but often its a game of trying to dislodge them off my cut offs with penals, you pretty much need three before they become genuinely effective, yes I try to cut them off also but their vast numbers make that pretty hard, they havent had to build a tier building at the beginning with the time and expense that takes, I have had a better time with four cons than when I have done penals, I only play 1v1 auto.

Аs one man once said - Mines win games. Especially if you playing as Soviets, which have just aversome multy-purpose mines. They are cheap, can do a lot of damage and quick to plant.

Also, maxim vet1 ability is extremly useful, when facing blobs - it literally pumps out whole box of ammunition without any cooldowns.
Like,
-"Vadim, folkssturm are coming!"
-"No worries, komrad-komander, we got little teleporter inside our ammo boxes, aimed straight at ammo factory in gulag!"

So if you spotted that blob at max range and then popped ability, then blob wont get too close for lava-nade and wont stay too far, where grens can snipe your maxim gunner.

Also-also, demochardges still can be a thing, if you hide them properlly. Almost no players never ever moves their cameras(alt+moving your mouse), so hiding them behind builindgs, wreckage and some green covers can work in your favor.

Also-also-also, flame artys from commanders and CE flamers are quite effective - while first are simple area-denial, CE in green cover can hold blob off for 30-40 seconds, while doing great AOE damage. Combine this with maxim ability, and whole blob is sitting in open of nowhere, slowly burning away.

Also-Also-Also-Also, if your opponent blobbing, then he obviosly went for jgtiger commander with sturmofficer. Focus him, and wholle blob will retreat as soon as officer model is killed.

I'm using the term blob, but they are obviously not bunched up as this is 1v1 automatch, I can sometimes get abilities out that can force a retreat of a couple of squads, but there are multiple squads coming in from all angles, I'm chucking flame nades firing maxims etc in sort of a defensive ark a lot of the time, the problem is one of being outgunned everywhere, I can consistently get the game to be pretty competitive but after over 3000 1v1 automatch games I'm just not beating that faction as Soviets.

Moved to Red Army Strategies.

Another solution is Shock Troops

I have tried this, but if i go tier 1, by the time I have a penal squad out they have already cut me off, so it can be as long as 8 to 10 minutes before I have T70, by then its already useless, guards are ammo dependant and being so massively outnumbered due to penals securing fuel for T70 is hard enough without trying to secure ammo as well, but often its a game of trying to dislodge them off my cut offs with penals, you pretty much need three before they become genuinely effective, yes I try to cut them off also but their vast numbers make that pretty hard, they havent had to build a tier building at the beginning with the time and expense that takes, I have had a better time with four cons than when I have done penals, I only play 1v1 auto.

How strange. I play only 1 v 1 auto as well, and OKW is the easiest matchup for me. I find Ost much harder to deal with.

The matchup tends to go like this:

OKW starts off either capping their own stuff or going for aggression. If they go for aggression Clown Car with Penals will wreck them hard. Raketen is the usual response, which is not only very RNG dependent but also reliant on player micro and positioning.

If you lose Clown Car early without inflicting much bleed and/or taking their cutoff, you're in trouble.

Luchs comes around 7 to 8 mins, Guards are the appropriate response and will bleed you, so you need to play defensively.

T70 comes out around 9 minutes. Shouldn't arrive later than 10. Use Penals to screen for raketens and T70 will do the rest. Some OKW players react by going Puma, which usually means no P4. That's perfect because OKW P4 is so good vs infantry, and Guards gain easy vet from the Puma, and you want 2 or 3 vetted Guards by the time Obers come out.

From 10 mins onwards the T70 micro is key. Guards will lose initially to the low cost Volks, but Guards have insane Vet bonuses and Volks have trash Vet, so using the T70 well will transition you into the period of Penals + Guards dominance.

10 mins to 20 mins is usually where I win the game as Soviets. Late game gets harder once he transitions into T4 and multiple Panzer IVs, and especially when his Obers start hitting vet 2 or 3. Not having sandbags or hmgs will often cause problems with mp bleed as well. Being able to

In the late game, defensive play with the T70 (which gives crazy vision) should allow you to grind out a victory. If the OKW player is stupid/noob enough to get a King Tiger, the Soviet player wins instantly.

I once had a 300++ VP to 50 VP advantage, with multiple max vet squads and two P4s at high vet, so I decided to taunt my opponent by dumping all my resources into a King Tiger. That allowed my opponent to instantly win the game because I no longer had resources in reserve, and effectively only had 74pop cap vs his 100 pop cap. His SU85 also instantly became Vet 3, and my Sturmpioneers no longer had time to repair the P4s.

Basically calling in a King Tiger is akin to losing two Panzer IVs at once, while blocking up more than a quarter of your pop cap. It's the ultimate "I lose" button.

In his defense, if you don't know what to do as soviets you can get run over. Why would you go conscripts against OKW for example. Your mainline infantry will be inferior at minute 0 as it will be when they get StGs, and PPSHs, while good vs ostheer are not enough because of the StG DPS curve. Go penals, get m3, bully him.

Cons and T2 is also viable, relying more on Maxims to handle the OKW infantry.

Although personally, I've had so much success with T1 that I hardly go T2.

As stated before, as soviets vs OKW you can just rush a flamer M3 scout car and use it with 2-3 penals simultaneously. It will push the OKW player off the entire field early game and forces him to get a raketenwerfer most of the times. He cant have fausts at that point so you can use the M3 without any respect. Just drive directly into the Sturms and Volks to push them out of cover and force them to retreat, especially if penals are nearby as well.

If you keep the penals alive and get T70 or T34 on top of that, the blobs shouldn't be a problem cuz penal veterancy is actually really strong.

In his defense, if you don't know what to do as soviets you can get run over. Why would you go conscripts against OKW for example. Your mainline infantry will be inferior at minute 0 as it will be when they get StGs, and PPSHs, while good vs ostheer are not enough because of the StG DPS curve. Go penals, get m3, bully him.

that doesn't make sense, top players still use cons as soviets against OKW,(I do watch pro replays) people talking about flame scout car as though its a cure all are living in a dream world, its useful but not for long, its also situational, not just something you pop out as it slows the penals build and will get fausted if used with flame, as its got to get in pretty close, decent for dislodging buildings, pretty short lived usefulness, lets stop pretending tht you can control OKW blobs with less more expensive infantry, Penals do work, but not with like for like skill, they will outnumber soviets and will get the 6 minute noddy tank, you cant have had flame and upgraded a penal squad by then unless you had decent map control, which you dont get by being outnumbered, by the way PPSH cons beat STG's grens.

that doesn't make sense, top players still use cons as soviets against OKW,(I do watch pro replays) people talking about flame scout car as though its a cure all are living in a dream world, its useful but not for long, its also situational, not just something you pop out as it slows the penals build and will get fausted if used with flame, as its got to get in pretty close, decent for dislodging buildings, pretty short lived usefulness, lets stop pretending tht you can control OKW blobs with less more expensive infantry, Penals do work, but not with like for like skill, they will outnumber soviets and will get the 6 minute noddy tank, you cant have had flame and upgraded a penal squad by then unless you had decent map control, which you dont get by being outnumbered, by the way PPSH cons beat STG's grens.

yeah that's a great answer, so last few games ive had against OKW I have played scout car and penals to guards, OKW players have been telling me the reason that doesn't control them is it takes to long, I could show you a replay, player seemed less experienced with OKW but he still won with blob to puma to KT, as they all do, would you like to see it to maybe tell me what I did wrong? ... obviously theres lots you do wrong in a game, but you know what I mean.

yeah that's a great answer, so last few games ive had against OKW I have played scout car and penals to guards, OKW players have been telling me the reason that doesn't control them is it takes to long, I could show you a replay, player seemed less experienced with OKW but he still won with blob to puma to KT, as they all do, would you like to see it to maybe tell me what I did wrong? ... obviously theres lots you do wrong in a game, but you know what I mean.

The problem is like this:

You ask for strategies to control OKW blobs -> you're given viable strategies by top players in both 1v1 and teamgames that have worked for many others -> you tell us this is wrong because the OKW player will have more volks than you have penals. While that is true it is eventually mitigated once you reach critical mass of penals.

Your opponet has a sturm and 2 volks and a kubel, you have a penal an m3 and a combat engineer. while your opponet may have more units, your units are more effective in 1 on 1 situations. Any situation you can fight a penal vs volk alone, you will win. Any situation you catch the kubel out with the m3 you win. Now say your opponet is not stupid and runs his sturms around with a volks backing it up. Because he knows he will lose a long range fight vs your penal, he MUST charge with the sturms or lose ground to avoid the engagment. If he charges, you have the M3 to back you up. If he runs, you have the M3 to force him out. If he stays away and caps with his starting advantage congrats, he's wasting one of the few advantages OKW has.

From the time it takes to get a rush puma, which is bad btw, to get a KT is like 450F. Unless he has full map control, given you break even at +26F/min that is around 18 minutes of zero AI armor and a puma. In that time you should be able to amass a very sizeable army. Which should consist of multiple guard squads if you go penals, possible T70 and t34s.

Long story short: T1 is slow for soviets starting out. Do not play hyper aggressive and only look for engagements you can win. You wanna poke his cutoff with a combat engineer because you know 3 volks are elsewhere? be my guest. So long as you don't continuously run into losing engagments you will eventually recover from your slow start and go into the mid-lategame soviets which are absolutely kickass (with doctrines).

A single KT is countered by a single SU85 at half the price!

I made a replay for u

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  Shadow Link

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  For "OKW blob control"

  by: ShadowLinkX37 map: Lost Glider

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that doesn't make sense, top players still use cons as soviets against OKW,(I do watch pro replays) people talking about flame scout car as though its a cure all are living in a dream world, its useful but not for long, its also situational, not just something you pop out as it slows the penals build and will get fausted if used with flame, as its got to get in pretty close, decent for dislodging buildings, pretty short lived usefulness, lets stop pretending tht you can control OKW blobs with less more expensive infantry, Penals do work, but not with like for like skill, they will outnumber soviets and will get the 6 minute noddy tank, you cant have had flame and upgraded a penal squad by then unless you had decent map control, which you dont get by being outnumbered, by the way PPSH cons beat STG's grens.

We've given you the run-down on how good players play the SOV vs OKW matchup. As Shadowlink mentioned, it's mostly identical to how the top players play strategy-wise, we just have significantly poorer micro skills.

If your M3 isn't raping OKW, you're living in a world of suckage, unfortunately. Penals in an M3 easily abuse 2 volks squads. Against a Sturm and a Volks you can force the sturm to bleed heavily and disembark to beat Volks while M3 retreats for repairs. Basically what you're telling us is that you're playing so badly that you're doing nothing at all in the 3 to 4 minute window that M3 is out and Luchs isn't.

It seems you're consistently letting your opponent get a 6 mins Luchs - that means the M3 pressure wasn't there, or your opponent is far more skilled than you are. I can only get the Luchs out at 6ish mins if my opponent is rank 300ish or worse. Similarly as Soviets, my opponent can only get a Luchs out around 7 mins if he's top 100 as well.

You're stubbornly insistent that Penals and Guards can't handle Volks. If he's using 500mp of infantry to counter you 300mp infantry unit, it kinda makes sense that he's winning. You need to take better engagements. T70 stomps Volks further unless he goes Puma. If he goes Puma, hurray, that means his P4 will be out REALLY late, and if his micro isn't excellent the Puma is free vet for Guards.

Lastly - if you're struggling with the KT in 1 v 1 games, you may need to practise beating the Normal AI first before moving into multiplayer. The KT is so bad that it's impossible to win with it in an equally matched game. Once you've started playing against and beating Hard AI, you should be able to easily counter the KT while blindfolded and playing without a keyboard, just like every single other decent 1 v 1 player.

I get that he could have worded the last paragraph more nicely, but you seem to be missing/ignoring the point. His first few paragraphs are all relevant advice.

As for KTs, I would say that countering them is extremely simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple and straightforward. As shadowlink said, you get a tank destroyer or two, and thats usually enough. You say its easy if they have no other army, but thats the point. No OKW player should be able to pull out a KT in a serious game without severely falling behind as (and usually losing before) they get the tech and the resources. So usually when the opponent gets a KT, either he had to float so many resources for so long that he shouldnt have an army alive to support it, or he outskills you and can play an even map with you while floating a ton. In the latter situation, theres not much you can do. In the former, the aforementioned tank destroyers should be more or less enough.

Invissed a post.

Let's not bash people when we disagree with them.

so why is my post been moderated and yet FelixTHM acts like a complete dick, flames first and gets away with it? I have played three games today in 1v1 that every OKW player actually plays for the KT from the start, its his actual plan, I have posted one of them for you, all I can think is you lot don't play 1v1, or maybe you cant counter an M3 with penals as OKW, soviets must have won every single tournament with an M3 full of penals... oh no they haven't have they.