Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Airborne Paratroopers can get ELITE Bazookas from the weapon racks, all the Package gives them is stealth to first strike enemy armor, nothing else.

And Panzershreck already has similar stats, thus weapon racks aren't needed.
Riegel mines and camo bonus could be the best option for Panzergrens if stormtroopers stay.

Quote me saying they are useless..remove the bias all over your face and maybe you can properly read a post before answering.

Point is they overlap with panzergrens with very minor differences, like it or not they are cqb units at the end of the day.

The new Stormtroopers are indeed CQC units.

Panzergrenadiers aren't. They're midrangers like Penals.

That. Also panzergrenadiers don’t have camo. Camo is a game changer for units that have it and gives them many more options than units that don’t. Commandos and royal engineers don’t overlap in combat use at all despite both having smgs since commandos have camo and engies don’t (they also have worse dps but are far cheaper so theoretically you could just make more of them and use them as cqc) but commandos have camo which makes them better in certain respects, even if engies were hypothetically a better combat unit (they are fairly decent smg troops).

Their dps curve is slighly different, but they are still cqb units and really pay their price when used as cqb troops.

Hell they technically ARE ambush units that require smoke or sightblockers to avoid being countered by mainlines with upgrades, trading camo for better dps curve.

Pretending that BOTH can have a role in your build order at the same time is nonsense. One is going to be the top dog, the other a waste of a slot (or half), period.

This post implies you think stormtroopers are effectively useless. Check your opinions before you tell people off for not knowing how to read. Also, look up “sarcasm” and “hyperbole” and check my other post again.

No it doesn't, strawmanning my posts to pretend it does won't change it.
It even says half or full slot wasted because it is not sure if panzergrens or sturms would be ignored.
Learn to read

Just wanted to say it again: since the faction is getting snares, Tank Hunter Sections should get their upgrades back.


And a few more nitpicky things:
The thompson upgrade icon looks bad under the cavalry rifle's symbol, which also has a tommy gun.

It could be nice if the Veteran Sergeant grenadier used a different model.

I think the built versions of Forward structures should be more expensive than (or at least equally priced to) the converted versions. That would reward players for keeping structures intact and using predetermined locations.

No it doesn't, strawmanning my posts to pretend it does won't change it.
It even says half or full slot wasted because it is not sure if panzergrens or sturms would be ignored.
Learn to read

Ignored still implies it is effectively useless. You also still haven’t caught on to the fact that the original post you quoted was gross hyperbole and sarcasm for effect despite me explicitly stating it. Then you went on to make me think you actually think they’re useless in the context I described

Learn to speak English.

Ignored still implies it is effectively useless. You also still haven’t caught on to the fact that the original post you quoted was gross hyperbole and sarcasm for effect despite me explicitly stating it. Then you went on to make me think you actually think they’re useless in the context I described

Learn to speak English.

I said that either sturm or panzergrens would be ignored because one of the two would be inevitably better at covering pretty much the same role.

Somehow that turned to "Sturm would be useless and specifically because they are weak"...WOW

You are just further digging the hole trying for strawmans but the truth is...you were looking for someone to jump on and decided to completely ignore 80% of the post and completely modify the meaning of the remaining 20%, or you are dense and you couldn't actually understand it, but either way i'm done, seek for a brawl with ullumullu instead, this thread is for the balance patch.

Hello!

I hope I have posted this correctly and am not derailing the current ongoing discussion on Stormtroopers and Panzergrenadiers, but I played around a bit with the patch in the editor mod and while I really, really do like the overall ideas of the reworked doctrines, there is one thing in particular that I would like to discuss: The Valentine. Here are the changes made in the revamp so far:

Valentine
Changes intended to make this unit more potent in combat.
-Main gun damage from 80 to 120
-Population from 12 to 8
-CP requirement from 6 to 5
-Observation now increases sight by 50%; no longer scans for units in the FOW and does not disable movement.
-Veterancy requirements from 1820/3640/7280 to 1020/2040/4080
-Concentrated Sexton Barrage price from 15 to 35
-Sexton Creeping Barrage no longer requires veterancy 1

I really do like these changes. I, however, still find the Valentine to be lacking, due to it performing similarly to the AEC, while coming out a lot later (I looked at some games using the spectate function and also skimmed a few GCS replays and it seems that around about ten to eleven minutes is the time that people generally reach five CP) and not costing less (the AEC, with its side tech, being 380 MP, 75 fuel and 6 pop and the Valentine being 300 MP, 80 fuel and 8 pop). I feel like the only redeeming feature of the Valentine is the better crush, but apart from that I really fail to see why I would ever build the Valentine, since I do not believe that its smoke, vision and sexton support do really cut it.
However, I am far from a good player and I may be overlooking something. So please, if I am wrong, be free to tell me. Otherwise, I hope that the Valentine can still be adjusted a bit more.

TL;DR: I feel that the Valentine is still not that good. I am far from being a good player though and if it is in a good place right now, I would be happy to change my opinion.

It seems kv-2 is a bit too strong right now. I am fine with the damage output, but it needs some armor nerf imo. Jp4 can't penetrate its frontal armor and puma with HEAT round cannot penetrate its rear.

It seems kv-2 is a bit too strong right now. I am fine with the damage output, but it needs some armor nerf imo. Jp4 can't penetrate its frontal armor and puma with HEAT round cannot penetrate its rear.

You're supposed to use Panther against it.

Both, JP4 and Puma are to counter meds and lighter.
For heavies, it was always about Panther.

Also, Puma with HEAT rounds will chew through rear armor without much of a problem IF YOU ARE CLOSE.

You're supposed to use Panther against it.

Both, JP4 and Puma are to counter meds and lighter.
For heavies, it was always about Panther.

Also, Puma with HEAT rounds will chew through rear armor without much of a problem IF YOU ARE CLOSE.

Serious=?

Serious=?

Yes, serious - there is a reason why panther exists for both axis factions, while their T3 TDs have limited penetration.

If panther didn't existed, JP4 would have 220-260 pen like SU-85, but it does and countering heavies is specifically why it exists.

You may not like it, but it doesn't make it any less real.

How is a panther supposed to counter a heavy tank behind a shot blocker without getting railed by Jacksons/Su85/FF or AT guns? The RoF also makes it difficult to chew through the KV-2 HP pool, not to mention possible repair bays.

How is a panther supposed to counter a heavy tank behind a shot blocker without getting railed by Jacksons/Su85/FF or AT guns? The RoF also makes it difficult to chew through the KV-2 HP pool, not to mention possible repiar bays.

How is JP4 supposed to counter it, which the argument is about?

How is JP4 supposed to counter it, which the argument is about?

Thats the point. There is no (effective) counter. It's dive and pray or give up a VP maybe 2.

How can you say that pgrens can cover the same role as sturms? Can pgrens run over mid VP 30mins into the game when its 90% katied, panzerwerfed, land matressed and is one big pile of medium cover? No? Then they are not able to ambush squad after squad after squad.
I posted a replay of Helping Hans on just how useful the sturms are in another post and will do so here to underline my opinion.
"If you have time, educate yourself and watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwdVrJ2xyK8. 27:55 is good to shwo their lethality. They dismantle the AT crew in seconds.
33:25 absolutely annihilating that conscript squad close range.
Its a replay by Helping Hans in which he uses Stormtroopers hunting down 2+ snipers, several retreating and normal squads and made them ultaimte terminators."
I dont see how pgrens could walk up to repairing engineers close to the enemy base, to snipers or set up an ambush with flame nades + high DPS.
Fact is decently skilled enemies will retreat their mainline infantry 1v1 vs vet 3 pgrens when they see them coming. You dont see sturms coming and that makes them extremely deadly.
Fact is pgrens are for flanking when mainline engaged to force the enemy mainline off.
Sturms are supposed to be deep behind enemy lines, wiping repairing engineers, mainline infantry coming back on the field, hunting snipers, setting booby traps (!) and to give vision for call ins. If you see a pgrens close to your ambulance and you hear a stuka sound, you sure as hell will know that your shit got reconed. With sturms you dont even know that they are there. Pgrens cant do any of this.
In general units like repairing engineers are too far away from the action for pgrens to get to them and snipers just retreat when seeing pgrens waltzing up to them.

How is JP4 supposed to counter it, which the argument is about?

JP4 is supposed to take out other tanks from a longer range, that is what a tank destroyer is for!

JP4 is supposed to take out other tanks from a longer range, that is what a tank destroyer is for!

Yes, but not all tanks, its penetration clearly stats which tanks its supposed to engage.

JP4 is supposed to take out other tanks from a longer range, that is what a tank destroyer is for!

By the same logic the 45mm is supposed to inflict heavy damage on elefants and tiger, because its an AT gun?
Why is there an elefant or Jadgtiger if all you need would be JP4s to engage all tanks effectively?

Su-85 also cant pen KT and Tiger 100% from max range, nerf KT and Tiger armor then according to your logic?

I do think the combination of high armor, HP and the ability to lob shells over shot blockers might prove problematic. It can deal damage from safety and will be very hard to kill. Brummbär is already (borderline) OP because of similar traits but that one at least has a low HP pool to balance things out a bit.