Which faction is best late game?

Hey, I've been playing CoH1 since release and recently turned to CoH2. I mostly play 2v2 and would rate vanilla CoH1 9.5 in this sense (panzer elite are ok too, but brits are hit or miss). Although I haven't played CoH2 a lot, my initial impression is a solid 7.5. The game is fun, but there are so many things I miss. I miss having to choose between barracks and support company when going american, and if I go barracks, choosing between jeep or rifle squad as first unit.

I miss having to choose between early BARs or nades. I miss bikes when playing germans. Bikes are really awesome early game and reward good micro. I loved using bikes (or rather, schwimmwagens) and jeeps to push enemy squads out of cover and winning small skirmishes that way. I really miss mines. I've been playing as ostheer and the teller mines cost 60 munitions, which is a lot. I would love to be able to lay "normal" mines like in CoH1. There are many, many small things I miss, which when taken together make quite the difference.

However, I've just started getting into CoH2 so I'm open to changing my mind. Now (finally) to my question: Which faction is the best late game? In CoH1, wehr was usually the best faction late game and there was a great dynamic were the americans had to push and be extremely aggressive early on, while the germans had to hang on in there and tech.

2v2 player? go German

How come? Why are ostheer the strongest late game faction in 2v2?

How come? Why are ostheer the strongest late game faction in 2v2?

Strongest late game unit in late game?

2v2+ German is the best late game faction because the tanks just roll the map, perfect example last night I had 4 su-85 in 3v3 at bottom of steppes. 3 P4 just roll right by my tanks take a shot FROM EACH SU-85 and my conscripts would not cause any AT nade engine damage to slow them down, and then the P4 start circling the tanks like they was AT guns and took them all out.

Also the opel trucks are still way to OP they should be limited to 1 per player in a game. If the game is long enough and 3-4 opel trucks are put out, you are certain to get steam rolled by german armor.

Lowering the fuel cost of brumbar, panther v and tiger was big mistake by relic even with increased manpower cost.

I play both russian and german I feel no stress at any point in a early game as german or russian. The mg42 nerf is nice but I just use grens and pgrens now instead and they do more damage so the early game on either side i feel is much better. i can get and hold my own the first 10-15 minutes as both factions, but playing as russians it is disappointing when 15 minutes of good map control is ruined by a swarm of tanks, thanks to fuel cache plus opel trucks of the germans.

right now the only viable late game russian tank counters are is2 assuming you have enough fuel to get 1 or 2, or the 34 spam. Sure you will loose some t34's but a rush with 2 or 3 players all having 4+ t34 units is sadly the best counter currently since the last patch.

Strongest late game unit in late game?

as Russian IS-2
as German Tiger

So far, this is my (newbie)experience playing 2v2 as germans: I do quite well early game. Then I gradually lose the advantage. In t3 I get a pz4. Going ostwind seems like suicide, since I have access to so little reliable AT. The pak sucks big time. Screcks cost 120 munitions. A lone soviet medium tank will crush my ostwind. So pz4 it is. Now I try to maneuvre so I can use my tank to my advantage. I can't get close to hardly any soviet infantry, because their heat-seeking AT granade destroys my engine and renders my tank a sitting duck to SU-85s. Their 120mm mortars destroys my fortified positions as well as static units (mgs, etc. of course I can reposition them, and I constantly do, but the mortar has a huge range and it is difficult for me to "out-mortar" them). If I try to push to take out their mortar positions, my tanks get damaged by a SU-85 shot from out of nowhere and I have to retreat it to save it.

So far, this is my (newbie)experience playing 2v2 as germans: I do quite well early game. Then I gradually lose the advantage. In t3 I get a pz4. Going ostwind seems like suicide, since I have access to so little reliable AT. The pak sucks big time. Screcks cost 120 munitions. A lone soviet medium tank will crush my ostwind. So pz4 it is. Now I try to maneuvre so I can use my tank to my advantage. I can't get close to hardly any soviet infantry, because their heat-seeking AT granade destroys my engine and renders my tank a sitting duck to SU-85s. Their 120mm mortars destroys my fortified positions as well as static units (mgs, etc. of course I can reposition them, and I constantly do, but the mortar has a huge range and it is difficult for me to "out-mortar" them). If I try to push to take out their mortar positions, my tanks get damaged by a SU-85 shot from out of nowhere and I have to retreat it to save it.

to master a faction, you'll have to play both, 120mm mortar is the only thing remain in soviet arsenal which could do something terrible, PZIV can't fight a SU-85 head on of cuz, but the PanzerShreck in COH2 is far more accurate from what is was in vCOH, and you can get a Tiger or Elefant especially you play 2v2, your team must have a elefant+spotter scope on the field, the rest of the thing is just pure rape, try to save resources when you hit 4CP and get the elefant as soon as you reach 5 CP.

So far, this is my (newbie)experience playing 2v2 as germans: I do quite well early game. Then I gradually lose the advantage. In t3 I get a pz4. Going ostwind seems like suicide, since I have access to so little reliable AT. The pak sucks big time. Screcks cost 120 munitions. A lone soviet medium tank will crush my ostwind. So pz4 it is. Now I try to maneuvre so I can use my tank to my advantage. I can't get close to hardly any soviet infantry, because their heat-seeking AT granade destroys my engine and renders my tank a sitting duck to SU-85s. Their 120mm mortars destroys my fortified positions as well as static units (mgs, etc. of course I can reposition them, and I constantly do, but the mortar has a huge range and it is difficult for me to "out-mortar" them). If I try to push to take out their mortar positions, my tanks get damaged by a SU-85 shot from out of nowhere and I have to retreat it to save it.

You could try overrunning their positions with panzer grenadiers. If they have no well microed snipers and you keep moving to avoid mortars then their best counter is t34. Hold the p4 back to deal with these or get 1-2 shrek squads.

IDK, Russian infantry seems stronger (EDIT: by this I mean shocks and guards) and with its abilities, it is possible to take on German heavy armour. Combine that with ZIS spam/SU-85s and Arty and they can really have a strong endgame.

My impression is that Soviets are actually better late gate. Ost seems best right in the mid game, maybe a bit stronger early game too.

Once the stonewall of SU85s appear, it's an uphill battle for Ost player. That single unit just owns so hard. At that point you have a lot of options to "ATG creep" as it was called in CoH1 - Katyusha / 120mm to get rid of dig ins, vetted cons/shocks to push up and cap, KV8 + SU85 combo to prevent ever taking anything back. Unless you get greedy or careless, of course.

The Elefant and to a lesser extent Pak43 are really the only solid counters Ost gets late game. Panther is a joke unless heavily vetted. Tiger is not bad after last patch but generally too slow / expensive / not numerous enough (in team games).

That story earlier in the thread about 3 SU85s losing to 3 P4s must have been a case of outstandingly bad micro and/or positioning and/or support. Or all the P4s were vet3 and all the su85s were vet0. 3 SU85s will absolutely crush 3 P4s if the soviet player has a pulse.

The one which won the early game. Or what do you mean? Two maxed out armys? Never had that happen.

to master a faction, you'll have to play both, 120mm mortar is the only thing remain in soviet arsenal which could do something terrible, PZIV can't fight a SU-85 head on of cuz, but the PanzerShreck in COH2 is far more accurate from what is was in vCOH, and you can get a Tiger or Elefant especially you play 2v2, your team must have a elefant+spotter scope on the field, the rest of the thing is just pure rape, try to save resources when you hit 4CP and get the elefant as soon as you reach 5 CP.

120mm is the only thing remain in soviet arsenal which could do something terrbile????

Are you serious? What about the KV8 and God Mode Snipers?

The Ostheer is definately the stronger faction in the end game - in general, that is.

Meaning, that if the soviet player follows a pretty narrow build pattern, namely aiming at SU85, it may be balanced. But if the soviet player does anything else, german tanks will win 2/3 of games with equal skills.

WHat you may have to realise if you have a hard time making german armour work is, that they have a much more devastating effect if you use them in groups rather than send them in singlehandedly.

A group of maybe 3 PzIV can break up soviet defenses. Use the advatage of rotating turrets against SU85. Be prepared to lose at least 1 panzer. Your aim is to wreck havoc on preparede defenses. Then you can move in with all the softer stuff and cap.

3 panzers may seem like much, but I see it in many 2v2 and other team games. So it's absolutely doable, but ofc. you need to do fuel caches and/or Opels.

120mm is the only thing remain in soviet arsenal which could do something terrbile????

Are you serious? What about the KV8 and God Mode Snipers?

there's already a whine post about kv-8,feel free to make a new one

Aside from the SU85 I think Germans have the upper hand late game.

KV8 + Su-85 = gg always. I´m not even going to play Germans after this patch. The nerf-club hit the Germans so hard that it´s almost impossible to win 2v2s. Yet Su-85 still can sit back and KV-8 toasts retreating vet3 PGs in one burst.

KV8 + Su-85 = gg always. I´m not even going to play Germans after this patch. The nerf-club hit the Germans so hard that it´s almost impossible to win 2v2s. Yet Su-85 still can sit back and KV-8 toasts retreating vet3 PGs in one burst.

How are you not able to handle the su85? After the last 2 patches it's speed and maneuverability was nerfed significantly. The only thing in the last patch that can make this task a little harder is the weird cost change they made on the panther, now its harder to get them in numbers. Aside from that the SU85 is easier to kill now especially that the panzer 4 can out maneuver it.

KV8 + Su-85 = gg always. I´m not even going to play Germans after this patch. The nerf-club hit the Germans so hard that it´s almost impossible to win 2v2s. Yet Su-85 still can sit back and KV-8 toasts retreating vet3 PGs in one burst.

Elefant+Tiger says hi, seriously, just look at the 2v2 ladder, German side have terrifying streaks than the soviet side, you have trouble playing German in 2v2? Then go Soviet 2v2 to feel the might of Ostheer

Elefant+Tiger says hi, seriously, just look at the 2v2 ladder, German side have terrifying streaks than the soviet side, you have trouble playing German in 2v2? Then go Soviet 2v2 to feel the might of Ostheer

Those streaks are a relict form the times the MG42 was overpowered. Now it´s underpowered. Tigers can´t beat teh Su-85+KV8 combo as they are outranged. The SU-85 was nerfed, but not to the extend the MG42 was. It can still sit back and snipe. What´s the point in a nerf to it´s speed when the problem remains that it sits in safety and two of them lock down the whole area for German tanks? Elefant is very situational and can be beaten by Soviet tanks and KV-8. The accompanying infantry is burnt within 20 seconds. With the insane reload time on the 88mm (is it a fricking ISU-152 projectile???) the damage output of the Elefant isn´t that great. Any T-34 coming close to it then eats it. 2x Su-85 + mark target also work.

I did change to Soviet side only and have a 10 win streak. Of the last 10 games as Germans I lost 6 or 7.