UKF feels entirely uphill, the entire game

Where did I claim he did or anything about total redesigns?

Redesign, not total redesign. Community balance teams are limited in what they're allowed to change. Relic was fine with fixing popcap, they were not fine with giving Sections snares.

Mr Smith did an excellent job and you should all be thankful for his involvement.

So UKF is fine and we should all be happy?

Defamatory post invised.

If you want to discuss individual members of a Balance team with another poster, please do so by PM.

Let me reemphasize, however: Relic runs these patches, so any criticism you have should be politely directed at them.

And in order to make it quite clear: what happens between Relic and the balance testers (some staff and some non-staff) is only within their knowledge. It is not general knowledge to the staff here, unless a staff member is on the Balance testing team. (And I am not such a member).

This state of affairs has existed pretty well throughout COH2. The only time everybody gets a real chance to comment, is when Relic runs a Beta test - this hardly ever occurs.

So UKF is fine and we should all be happy?

That is not what Tightrope said.

Redesign, not total redesign. Community balance teams are limited in what they're allowed to change. Relic was fine with fixing popcap, they were not fine with giving Sections snares.

I wrote an entire reply not just that cherry picked piece you know.

UKF needed love in return for nerfs but they got nothing in SBP, I blame both relic and Mr Smith and team for a number of failures (communication as I have already said) You obviously blame relic and he is not allowed to be criticized for any changes because according to you everything is the fault of relic for factions becoming underpowered of any other issues.

It's alright you know we can agree to disagree.

Defamatory post invised.

If you want to discuss individual members of a Balance team with another poster, please do so by PM.

Let me reemphasize, however: Relic runs these patches, so any criticism you have should be politely directed at them.

And in order to make it quite clear: what happens between Relic and the balance testers (some staff and some non-staff) is only within their knowledge. It is not general knowledge to the staff here, unless a staff member is on the Balance testing team. (And I am not such a member).

This state of affairs has existed pretty well throughout COH2. The only time everybody gets a real chance to comment, is when Relic runs a Beta test - this hardly ever occurs.

With all due respect if you are going to censor posts leveling completely tame criticism at a community balance team then what's the point of even having feedback threads on community patches or a balance forum at all.

We know you hold Mr Smith in high regard, but that doesn't mean any issues (SBP feedback threads being ignored, lack of discussion at all compared to WBP). And the linked criticism of that should be censored.

I wrote an entire reply not just that cherry picked piece you know.

UKF needed love in return for nerfs but they got nothing in SBP, I blame both relic and Mr Smith and team. You obviously blame relic and he is not allowed to be criticized for any changes because according to you everything is the fault of relic for factions becoming underpowered.

It's alright you know we can agree to disagree.

I usually only quote the specific part I'm responding to so I don't spam threads with redundant text. Normally the post I'm responding to doesn't get invissed.

I don't 'blame' Relic. I believe they're the only ones who make the call on what goes into their patches. The balance team however has no authority and therefore cannot be held accountable for patch content.

Giving community content creators flak just discourages them and others from helping out. Relic's likely throughly desensitized to forum rage by now so all these personal attacks are going to achieve now is driving away the people who give their free time to help keep this game going.

Giving community content creators flak just discourages them and others from helping out. Relic's likely throughly desensitized to forum rage by now so all these personal attacks are going to achieve now is driving away the people who give their free time to help keep this game going.

I've not once called him a fanboy or launched a personal attack, and no highlighting poor converse with the community from a community balance team is not an attack.

I'm sure the team themselves would agree with some of the points made about SBP in this very thread. But labeling it all personal attacks is not really adding discussion about what went wrong at all.

With all due respect if you are going to censor posts leveling completely tame criticism at a community balance team then what's the point of even having feedback threads on community patches or a balance forum at all.

We know you hold Mr Smith in high regard, but that doesn't mean any issues (SBP feedback threads being ignored, lack of discussion at all compared to WBP). And the linked criticism of that should be censored.

First off the bat, I don’t want to rain on your parade nor shatter your libertarian dream, but contrary to your assertion, there are restrictions on freedom of speech, and you can see how they start on here, by reading the Site Rules in the bottom right hand corner of your screen.

Second, we are not looking to audition for a Beachmaster Hippopotamus. Therefore, if you could be so kind as to close your cavernous jaws, and stop flipping dung around the pool with the vigorous swishing of your tail, that will be much appreciated.

Third, as previously advised, we do not welcome ad hominem snide remarks, especially those referring to an absent poster, who left staff weeks before you even joined here.. Accordingly, please desist, otherwise the thread will be left open, but you will not be a member of it.

2) The idea that

"It wouldn't have been so bad if he didn't have the entire moderation team of CoH2.org propping him up on the forums, but it basically came down to discussions being heavily moderated to fit Mr. Smiths balance agenda, giving him and Relic this false sense of justification for all the changes made to the game within the past year or so that he was involved in the balance team."

is flat out wrong

Moderators will only intervene if personal attacks are being made. Robust polite debate is encouraged. But play the ball, not the man.

It is not. I have had discussions through messages with some members of the moderation team in regards to my posts being invis'd for no other reason other than it criticized the unofficial balance patch and it's leaders; I even have screenshots of these exchanges. There's one exchange where the mod went back and undid his moderation because they had no justification for it other than "I didn't like what you had to say". I hate to break it to you but when you allow and/or encourage this type of behavior you effectively silence one side of the argument, and the utter garbage that is the latest balance patch makes it to testing there is nothing keeping it in check before it goes live. The moderation team SEVERELY impacted this game in a negative way by invis'ing criticism simply because you all hold the members of the balance team in high regard and didn't want people criticizing their work.

We can't pretend that this whole underpowered British situation is all the Balance Teams fault. Fact of the matter is, the British have been CoH's biggest Pariah since Opposing Fronts. The amount of fierce negativity towards them and it's players for such a long time by vocal members of the community took us down this path. The balance team's job was to address the "community's" biggest gripes. Well congrats, the British are about as much threat as a toothless lion. Not totally useless but are deprived of it's main strengths.

I will keep playing them but fact of the matter is, they have never been weaker than they are now.

It is not. I have had discussions through messages with some members of the moderation team in regards to my posts being invis'd for no other reason other than it criticized the unofficial balance patch and it's leaders; I even have screenshots of these exchanges.

Send me the screenshots by PM, kindly.

There's one exchange where the mod went back and undid his moderation because they had no justification for it other than "I didn't like what you had to say".

Ditto

I hate to break it to you but when you allow and/or encourage this type of behavior you effectively silence one side of the argument

Read my previous posts on here, kindly. Don't put words in my mouth. KK?

...and the utter garbage that is the latest balance patch makes it to testing there is nothing keeping it in check before it goes live.

So, here I repeat what I wrote before.

1) Relic decides the direction of the patch; and
2) the Balance team (if I understand them correctly) has to stay within 'scope'

Your judgment as to whether that it is successful is purely subjective. I am not making a judgment on your conclusion. But there is no need at all to personalise this. A balance team consists of those lead balancers who communicate with Relic, and then their testers.

The moderation team SEVERELY impacted this game in a negative way by invis'ing criticism simply because you all hold the members of the balance team in high regard and didn't want people criticizing their work.

I want to see your screenshots, please.

As I stated previously in this thread, we do try to protect our creators from rowdy, ill-informed comment (of which there is plenty). if we did not, you would have little to no creators.

The Moderators are not here to 'hold the balance team in high regard' - since often, they will not know who comprises the testers in the balance team.

Let me repeat: there is nothing wrong in civilised critiques of a patch - you are dissembling, at best, if you think the Moderators are trying to prevent valid criticism. By that, I mean the Moderators are not going to allow sly, personal attacks which are more an attack on an individual, rather than the subject at hand

We can't pretend that this whole underpowered British situation is all the Balance Teams fault. Fact of the matter is, the British have been CoH's biggest Pariah since Opposing Fronts. The amount of fierce negativity towards them and it's players for such a long time by vocal members of the community took us down this path. The balance team's job was to address the "community's" biggest gripes. Well congrats, the British are about as much threat as a toothless lion. Not totally useless but are deprived of it's main strengths.

I will keep playing them but fact of the matter is, they have never been weaker than they are now.

Couldn't disagree.

Equally, it has been discussed on staff as to whether posters with a low post count should open threads - or even be prevented from posting - in the Balance forums; those proposals have also been rejected.

Nothing which I have written above is designed to discourage any of you from making valid criticisms about balance patches.

As I said before, I had no idea a community balancing team was in charge of the changes, nor did I specifically call the designers out. Sounds like, while I did in fact make this thread, the subject was more than already on the community's minds.

I think some great ideas were pitched forward on what the British currently lack and how we might be able to fix them. Personally, I would like some more Axis counter-arguments, but overall I think this thread was entirely worthwhile, even with the bumps, provided its ideas are actually considered by developers.

Furthermore, while I do imagine that troll posts are abundant on this subforum, and in ignorance I may even have contributed in the past, I don't think the number of posts an individual has is indicative of a post's validity or worth. I'm certain people here are smart enough to see through the obvious dubious examples. It sounds like the mods have reached this conclusion as well, but I wanted to voice the concern since it was brought up.

How about ya'll put a sock in it as someone else said suggest some solutions that Relic will actually accept to fix the Brits, what happened happened and Mr. Smith is gone so there is no point in trying to find who to blame.

It’s pretty simple to fix issues, relic just don’t like our solutions. They prefer to keep asymmetric balance and try to find solutions without fixing the problem. Stationary support teams do not work in a fluid front game. They’ll either be too strong or too easy to destroy.

I really dont understand why relic wont allow snares on IS. I mean there is a doctrine that has snares on IS so what difference does it make.

Soviet T1 was designed as heavy anti inf but now it has AT rifles and snares so they changed there tune on that.

I would love to know relics reason of why they are so against it.

Maybe the wasp should also include an armor buff from 8 to 10.

Hahaha. I know you must have a thing for all things incendiary but I don't know if giving more armour to a vehicle with a massively exposed fuel tank makes much sense. lol.

That being said, we could make it more interesting. What if it did a lot of flame damage in the area upon exploding? Almost like a Demo that only works well vs Infantry?

Double edged sword yet but think if the panic it would cause if it fights infantry at close quarters. XD

Hahaha. I know you must have a thing for all things incendiary but I don't know if giving more armour to a vehicle with a massively exposed fuel tank makes much sense. lol.

That being said, we could make it more interesting. What if it did a lot of flame damage in the area upon exploding? Almost like a Demo that only works well vs Infantry?

Double edged sword yet but think if the panic it would cause if it fights infantry at close quarters. XD

That would be hillarious AF.
Pls Lelic, DO IT!