SU new player struggling [1v1]

Posts: 6

I'm new to the game and have lost the majority of my 1v1 games. All as SU.

This game is representative of the issues I seem to have. Losing the center VP and then incurring huge losses trying to retake it.

Any and all advice welcome.

Thank you.

0

VS

Demian

NomadicRiley

7

NomadicRiley - first replay
by: NomadicRiley map: Crossroads

1

-

Posts: 55

Hi Riley,

I'm no Strategist or high level play, but would gladly take a look at one of your games. The one you posted though is from the old patch, which means I cant actually watch the game. If you post a new game, ill be happy to take a look!

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

12 Jul 2018, 19:18 PMWoco

Hi Riley,

I'm no Strategist or high level play, but would gladly take a look at one of your games. The one you posted though is from the old patch, which means I cant actually watch the game. If you post a new game, ill be happy to take a look!

try -allowIncompatibleReplays in the steam launch options

Posts: 711

8 Jul 2018, 00:02 AMNomadicRiley

I'm new to the game and have lost the majority of my 1v1 games. All as SU.

This game is representative of the issues I seem to have. Losing the center VP and then incurring huge losses trying to retake it.

Any and all advice welcome.

Thank you.

0

VS

Demian

NomadicRiley

7

NomadicRiley - first replay
by: NomadicRiley map: Crossroads

1

-

It doesn't matter what faction is you main. You should play for all enemy factions to better know them. It will give you better understanding of enemy actions and possibilities.

Posts: 55

12 Jul 2018, 19:26 PMJibberJabberJobber

try -allowIncompatibleReplays in the steam launch options

Thanks for the tip. I actually already did that, and it does play the replay but the whole game consists of only the two players' starting engineers running around, which I guess is a result of it being a replay from an older version?

Posts: 930

yeah, you can't watch old replays.

Posts: 6

12 Jul 2018, 19:18 PMWoco

Hi Riley,

I'm no Strategist or high level play, but would gladly take a look at one of your games. The one you posted though is from the old patch, which means I cant actually watch the game. If you post a new game, ill be happy to take a look!

Woco,

Thanks for the offer. I uploaded a new replay from today that should be the latest patch.

Would welcome any feedback.

Thank you!

0

VS

Rhodesian

NomadicRiley

4

NomadicRiley - loss
by: NomadicRiley map: Unknown

1

-

Posts: 55

13 Jul 2018, 21:30 PMNomadicRiley

Woco,

Thanks for the offer. I uploaded a new replay from today that should be the latest patch.

Would welcome any feedback.

Thank you!

0

VS

Rhodesian

NomadicRiley

4

NomadicRiley - loss
by: NomadicRiley map: Unknown

1

-

Ok, ill have a look at it this week!

Posts: 55

13 Jul 2018, 21:30 PMNomadicRiley

Woco,

Thanks for the offer. I uploaded a new replay from today that should be the latest patch.

Would welcome any feedback.

Thank you!

0

VS

Rhodesian

NomadicRiley

4

NomadicRiley - loss
by: NomadicRiley map: Unknown

1

-

Hi Riley,

I only had time so far to have a proper look at the first half of the game. Around that point you actually also start getting in trouble. This are my comments so far. I will get back on the rest of the game later this week.

Generally I think you are maybe not yet familiar with the types of units, their abilities and general faction army compositions, which makes perfect sense since you only started playing

Conscripts are close combat units. Grenadiers are long range units. So always try to get up close with you conscripts. Your conscripts will lose long range engagements to Grenadiers.

First encounter: most of the times an Ostheer player build an mg as their very first unit, so beware of walking into an mg early game. After a while you will get a feeling for obvious spots for these early mg's. You could consider keeping 2 (or maybe even 3) conscripts in each others vicinity; close enough so they can support eachother if one gets suppressed (but still capping the map), but spread out enough to not get suppressed together. Or try not to approach obvious mg spots head on but circle around them. Pushing his mg off the field early game will be a major headache for the Ostheer player.

At 04:10 you attack his fuel. You know that before he had an MG near the centre VP, and you haven't seen it since. It is likely the MG is still around somewhere and will turn around once he notices you attacking his fuel. Be prepared for that. Perhaps take another squad with you and position it so that it is not easly caught out by the MG and/or easily able to flank it. Maybe you could have also waited to attack with a larger part of your conscripts, instead of only two of them (out of four). There was an idle conscript squad near you fuel that you could have used.

Around the 7 min mark Grenadiers capture 'your' VP and get in the house. You send three conscripts there. Squads in buildings can only shoot out of windows. This means that if a side of the building has only one window or no windows at all, the squads inside can only shoot at enemies on that side of the house with either one model or no models at all. But squads outside the house can still shoot at the squad inside the house with all their models, no matter if there are windows on that side of the house at all. You could have positioned all your conscripts direct at the short side of the house with only one window to flush out the Grenadiers quickly that way. And when the squad got out of the house, you could have immediately moved in your most left conscript squad to the Grenadiers to do maximum damage and potentially get a wipe. Conscripts do well at short range, Grenadiers do well at long range.

Learn to recognize when a Grenadier squad will fire a rifle grenade. You can watch it in the replay, but basically one of the models will kneel down and kind of position his rifle like a mortar pipe. Then you have some time to reposition, which will not always be enough but can help. For the best defense against grenades, read the Rookie/Veteran guide on COH2 (posted not too long ago).

Your opponents Mortar half track is a pain in the ass. One way to mitigate damage of Area Of Effect weapons (mortars, grenades, flamers, artillery) is to spread out your squads. Around the 8 minute mark your heavy mortar and conscript squad are standing very close together. That way both squads could get hit by the same mortar shell. Don't clump up units.

Around 09:30 your heavy mortar is very low on health with 5 models. It was already a bit of a (calculated) risk keeping it around, one hit of the mortar half track could have wiped it. But when the enemy engineers closed in (they do quite some damage close range) you should have retreated it instantly to heal up/reinforce. Luckily it didnt get wiped.

Around 09:50/10:30 you take some engagements that don't look so promising for you: your conscript on his fuel will get suppressed (you can see the mg setting up right in your face) and you may/may not have enough time to decap for getting pinned. After that, you force your guards to throw a grenade at an mg before retreating. Im not sure if that move actually made you lose models, but it did not really gain you anything, at the very least you took quite some health damage on your expensive guards while only killing one or two MG models, which he can easily replace. Only do these kind of actions if you could get a wipe, which in this case there was no chance of at all.

You left your conscripts at your ammo point (on the right side of the map) standing around for quite long. They were low on health and would not put up a good fight anyway if there was enemy activity. Get them back and get them at full strength again. You could always also consider getting one mg to guard a point. If you set it up at a good position, chances are your opponent will keep running into it. But also consider repositioning it.

Around the 12 min mark, you are walking two conscript squads into an MG. This is not your full army; you are attacking his main force head on but only with small parts of your army at a time, which is more easy for him to deal with. Also, one of the squads has 4 members but is very low on health so it can die easily or at least can only stay in the fight a short amount of time. Only take healthy squads with you. Also, remember your heavy mortar can do a smoke barrage and use a flare. These things can help you to see your opponent's position and/or smoke off MG's so you can flank it. Only after your first two squads are forced off, you bring in two more. But you made good use of the mortar to back up your assault!

Around 18:30, you are sending one conscript into the centre VP. This is wise in the sense that you can see if there is an MG or AT-gun, but the rest of you army is too far away/too passive to support it, causing it to get wiped.

Around the 19min mark you are sending in you T34 to go after the Ostwind. The Ostwind itself should not be too much of a problem since you have the T34. The Ostwind is very strong against infantry but does little damage to medium or heavy tanks. Chasing it could work if you are sure there is not real AT on the field, or risks of being snared by panzefausts. But once you saw the Stug (which does little damage to infantry but is strong against tanks), you should have retreated the T34 and be more careful with it. Again, you could use the mortar to scout/smoke to see where the Stug is at. Also, an AT-gun could have helped a lot against the Stug, provided that you keep paying attention to the threat of the mortar half track.

Don't engage the Stug like that with the T34. The Stug is very strong against tanks, as you noticed. But if you still do want to engage it, you can use the Mark Vehicle ability or Button ability (of your Guards) to increase the chance of killing it with help of your Guards squad.

I think this is the point where you really start to get in trouble. You have no way of countering the Ostwind. If you can't build tanks, build 1 or 2 AT-guns.

Then you chase the Stug. Your infantry gets murdered by the Ostwind, and chances of actually killing the Stug with 2 conscripts and one Guards squad are small: Conscripts don't damage tanks, except with their AT-grenades (which you did not research). One squad of Guards could perhaps finish off the Stug, but not when its getting ripped apart by PanzerGrenadiers (also very strong against infantry at close range. This can change if they get upgrades with Panzeschrecks, which are basically bazookas and are strong against tanks, but limiting their effectiveness against infantry) and an Ostwind.

As I said, I will get back on the rest of the match later. I hope this however has already provided some useful information!

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

17 Jul 2018, 18:58 PMWoco

Hi Riley,

I only had time so far to have a proper look at the first half of the game. Around that point you actually also start getting in trouble. This are my comments so far. I will get back on the rest of the game later this week.

Generally I think you are maybe not yet familiar with the types of units, their abilities and general faction army compositions, which makes perfect sense since you only started playing

Conscripts are close combat units. Grenadiers are long range units. So always try to get up close with you conscripts. Your conscripts will lose long range engagements to Grenadiers.

First encounter: most of the times an Ostheer player build an mg as their very first unit, so beware of walking into an mg early game. After a while you will get a feeling for obvious spots for these early mg's. You could consider keeping 2 (or maybe even 3) conscripts in each others vicinity; close enough so they can support eachother if one gets suppressed (but still capping the map), but spread out enough to not get suppressed together. Or try not to approach obvious mg spots head on but circle around them. Pushing his mg off the field early game will be a major headache for the Ostheer player.

At 04:10 you attack his fuel. You know that before he had an MG near the centre VP, and you haven't seen it since. It is likely the MG is still around somewhere and will turn around once he notices you attacking his fuel. Be prepared for that. Perhaps take another squad with you and position it so that it is not easly caught out by the MG and/or easily able to flank it. Maybe you could have also waited to attack with a larger part of your conscripts, instead of only two of them (out of four). There was an idle conscript squad near you fuel that you could have used.

Around the 7 min mark Grenadiers capture 'your' VP and get in the house. You send three conscripts there. Squads in buildings can only shoot out of windows. This means that if a side of the building has only one window or no windows at all, the squads inside can only shoot at enemies on that side of the house with either one model or no models at all. But squads outside the house can still shoot at the squad inside the house with all their models, no matter if there are windows on that side of the house at all. You could have positioned all your conscripts direct at the short side of the house with only one window to flush out the Grenadiers quickly that way. And when the squad got out of the house, you could have immediately moved in your most left conscript squad to the Grenadiers to do maximum damage and potentially get a wipe. Conscripts do well at short range, Grenadiers do well at long range.

Learn to recognize when a Grenadier squad will fire a rifle grenade. You can watch it in the replay, but basically one of the models will kneel down and kind of position his rifle like a mortar pipe. Then you have some time to reposition, which will not always be enough but can help. For the best defense against grenades, read the Rookie/Veteran guide on COH2 (posted not too long ago).

Your opponents Mortar half track is a pain in the ass. One way to mitigate damage of Area Of Effect weapons (mortars, grenades, flamers, artillery) is to spread out your squads. Around the 8 minute mark your heavy mortar and conscript squad are standing very close together. That way both squads could get hit by the same mortar shell. Don't clump up units.

Around 09:30 your heavy mortar is very low on health with 5 models. It was already a bit of a (calculated) risk keeping it around, one hit of the mortar half track could have wiped it. But when the enemy engineers closed in (they do quite some damage close range) you should have retreated it instantly to heal up/reinforce. Luckily it didnt get wiped.

Around 09:50/10:30 you take some engagements that don't look so promising for you: your conscript on his fuel will get suppressed (you can see the mg setting up right in your face) and you may/may not have enough time to decap for getting pinned. After that, you force your guards to throw a grenade at an mg before retreating. Im not sure if that move actually made you lose models, but it did not really gain you anything, at the very least you took quite some health damage on your expensive guards while only killing one or two MG models, which he can easily replace. Only do these kind of actions if you could get a wipe, which in this case there was no chance of at all.

You left your conscripts at your ammo point (on the right side of the map) standing around for quite long. They were low on health and would not put up a good fight anyway if there was enemy activity. Get them back and get them at full strength again. You could always also consider getting one mg to guard a point. If you set it up at a good position, chances are your opponent will keep running into it. But also consider repositioning it.

Around the 12 min mark, you are walking two conscript squads into an MG. This is not your full army; you are attacking his main force head on but only with small parts of your army at a time, which is more easy for him to deal with. Also, one of the squads has 4 members but is very low on health so it can die easily or at least can only stay in the fight a short amount of time. Only take healthy squads with you. Also, remember your heavy mortar can do a smoke barrage and use a flare. These things can help you to see your opponent's position and/or smoke off MG's so you can flank it. Only after your first two squads are forced off, you bring in two more. But you made good use of the mortar to back up your assault!

Around 18:30, you are sending one conscript into the centre VP. This is wise in the sense that you can see if there is an MG or AT-gun, but the rest of you army is too far away/too passive to support it, causing it to get wiped.

Around the 19min mark you are sending in you T34 to go after the Ostwind. The Ostwind itself should not be too much of a problem since you have the T34. The Ostwind is very strong against infantry but does little damage to medium or heavy tanks. Chasing it could work if you are sure there is not real AT on the field, or risks of being snared by panzefausts. But once you saw the Stug (which does little damage to infantry but is strong against tanks), you should have retreated the T34 and be more careful with it. Again, you could use the mortar to scout/smoke to see where the Stug is at. Also, an AT-gun could have helped a lot against the Stug, provided that you keep paying attention to the threat of the mortar half track.

Don't engage the Stug like that with the T34. The Stug is very strong against tanks, as you noticed. But if you still do want to engage it, you can use the Mark Vehicle ability or Button ability (of your Guards) to increase the chance of killing it with help of your Guards squad.

I think this is the point where you really start to get in trouble. You have no way of countering the Ostwind. If you can't build tanks, build 1 or 2 AT-guns.

Then you chase the Stug. Your infantry gets murdered by the Ostwind, and chances of actually killing the Stug with 2 conscripts and one Guards squad are small: Conscripts don't damage tanks, except with their AT-grenades (which you did not research). One squad of Guards could perhaps finish off the Stug, but not when its getting ripped apart by PanzerGrenadiers (also very strong against infantry at close range. This can change if they get upgrades with Panzeschrecks, which are basically bazookas and are strong against tanks, but limiting their effectiveness against infantry) and an Ostwind.

As I said, I will get back on the rest of the match later. I hope this however has already provided some useful information!

Very nice review

Although you gave a tip that says conscripts are close quaters units. This used to be true since their rifles were unpredictable at long range in the past, this has been changed though. Currently cons trade relativly even with grenadiers at max range before upgrades and vet.

Posts: 6

Woco,

Thank you for the very detailed reply, I appreciate it. I'm reviewing the replay now to get a better feel for your suggestions.

Thanks again!

Posts: 55

17 Jul 2018, 22:46 PMNomadicRiley

Woco,

Thank you for the very detailed reply, I appreciate it. I'm reviewing the replay now to get a better feel for your suggestions.

Thanks again!

To complete the review, starting from around the 19 min mark:

Now you are starting to get in trouble; he has an Ostwind that you cannot counter. He has a Stug as well, which is only a real problem if you actually have tanks (since it's mostly an Anti-tank unit). Counters to the Ostwind are basically AT-guns, medium/heavy tanks (in your case T34) or tanks destroyers (SU 85 or to a lesser degree SU 76). Some well placed mines can also be of great value. Your opponent does actually make it a bit difficult to choose the right counter at this moment because of his army composition.

AT-guns are great against the Stug and against the Ostwind, but have two weak points. If they get flanked by either the Ostwind or infantry they get murdered. And they are vulnerable to indirect fire, in this case the mortar half track.

A medium tank like the T34 will beat the Ostwind and can also deal with infantry, It is not so vulnerable to indirect fire. But it is vulnerable to the Stug.

The SU85 is good against both the Ostwind and the Stug, and is not so vulnerable to indirect fire. But it cannot deal with infantry, is not too mobile and does not have a turret, making it vulnerable to flanks with e.g. the Stug or anti-tank infantry.

Furthermore, you could place some mines in order to punish your opponent for pushing in too far and/or to protect your flanks.

In my opinion, but that is ofcourse debatable, a combination of an AT-gun and a T34 would have been the best composition. You do have to be on your toes to prevent the AT-gun from getting wiped by the mortar half track though. But you could use the AT-gun as your main counter to the Ostwind and the Stug, and use the T34 to prevent your AT-gun from getting flanked by either the Ostwind or infantry. And get the T34 to take some shots at whatever he is throwing at you.

Around 21:50 you start attacking again. Why did you expect to do better this time than your last attack? You knew about the Ostwind. Perhaps you could kill it with AT-grenades and some guards squads, but that is tricky. And you could have used the Mark Vehicle ability. You are floating a lot of ammo. You also see your attack getting bogged down by the Ostwind, panzergrenadiers and the bunker, but still persist in hanging around. That is only feeding your opponent veterancy and costing you manpower. The loss of manpower also makes it more difficult to get an AT-gun out.

Around the 25min mark you are at 'his' Victory point. It's good that you try to cover the sides of the map when going through the middle doesn't work! But once you arrive there with your squads, you know you can expect a counter push, either on that VP or on a different point on the map. And perhaps you should have built an extra engineer squad with sweepers to get rid of the mine field. While you are on his VP, put your squads in good defensive positions instead of just standing around (on an S-mine field!). Also not that most cover is directional. Only craters offer cover all around.

You get the SU 85 up there and almost kill the Ostwind. Although this nearly was successful, I don't think this is the best way to use the SU 85. It should be taking shots at vehicles from long range (preferable from so far away that it doesn't even get hit back) with its flanks covered. Now you get it up close and cornered, which makes it harder to use it since has no turret. Also be aware of the Focused Sight ability!

From this point on, things are really rough, although you still have most of your income. Your opponent should have been more agressive and push you off the map.

Tanks can also drive in reverse. This is often adviseable when in combat, because 1) they don't have to turn around to start driving so they get out of combat faster and 2) most important: they don't show their rear armor. Rear armor is not as good as frontal armor. So always try to avoid showing your rear armor.

I hope this will help you to gain an edge in some games. As I said, my own level is relatively low as well (around level 7) and I only play USF atm, but if you want to I can pick up some games as Axis to practice and maybe give some tips while actually playing. So feel free to add me on Steam.

Good luck!